Top Rope Solo belay devices

[wildbillc]

I currently use a mini traxion for a top rope solo belay device. In the past I have used a jumar and a shunt, but the mini traxion gives me the most confidence, especially on the overhangs. The m-traxion is a hauling device, am I out of control using it for TR soloing???

[layedback]

Useing gear other then for the intended use seems like a very bad idea.

[bigwallpete]

Went to a product knowledge for a retail store when the mini traxion first came out and the rep was saying that tring was well within the design of the device. We all took turns falling onto it that day and I have used it ever since for solo tring. The trick was clipping a bag to the bottom of the rope to give it some weight.

[JosephH]

Probably fine, and runs smoother than a shunt or grigri, but I have heard from a very reliable source that several have "exploded" under loads - though not from falls per se...

[snoboy]

I'mm 99% sure that the Mini Traxion manual shows it being used for TR.

 

Why not have a look at that? IOW - RTFM.

[JosephH]

Snoboy - it definitely shows it in the docs. But that doesn't mean they also don't explode under some circumstances or that the pro-traxion doesn't warp and fail to lock under some [deflecting] hauling loads. I own both and they are great. Just be aware gear has [design] limitations and both of these particular units don't care much for out-of-plane loads compared to a grigri or shunt...

[sweatinoutliquor]

It's great, just tie in short with backup knots every now and then. That's not too hard... I would love to see one of those petzl diagrams with the skull and crossbones, and maybe with a stick of dynamite showing the mini traxion exploding. No further explanation required! I would definetly check to see if those teeth have any effect on the rope after a fall though. I have a friend that swears that loading anything with teeth on dynamic ropes is bad with more than bodyweight.

[Alpinfox]

 

Yates Rocker.

[Blake]

Tibloc!

[layedback]

Tibloc? thats the only devise I have ever used that ruined a rope. I was lowering/cleaning an overhanging route I had just solo aided using the tibloc upside down to pull back in to the rock (fixed anchor at the bottum) to get to the next piece down to clean. I unclipped the upper piece and swung out, expecting the tibloc to catch, it snagged 7 feet of seath prior to catching. User error? Most likely but I totally lost confidence in the tibloc and ruined a new rope.

[gary_hehn]

I have always simply used a prusik knot on a short sling with a pulley attached below to feed it up the slightly weighted rope as I climb. Whatever you use do as sweatinoutliquor recommends, tie in short with backup knots. I use a separate rope for that and clip into figure eights.

[Billygoat]

Yates Rocker

 

 

Berserker

[chris]

I think Blake is joking - you never want to use a Tibloc for a "running" belay, in any form (that is, the rope running through the tie block or the tie block running over the rope). Not soon after Petzl first released them, people were experimenting using them for teams simul-climbing, with the idea that if the second fell, he wouldn't jerk the lead off of his stance.

Story is a French Guide was climbing easy terrain in such a manner when his client (or partner - this is were it becomes foggy), fell. Since the Tibloc was not "set" instead of gripping like a traditional ascender it shredded the sheath for several meters. This yanked the guide off of his stance, and there was a complete failure of the system (if the rope parted or the gear failed - this is foggy too) and both climbers fell to their deaths.

This was recounted to me on an AMGA Advanced Alpine Guidess Course in 2003. The lesson - Tibloc's are great substitutes for prussiks in numerous applications, but not for belays of any kind.

What the AMGA instructor cadre uses, typically on rock courses, are Pro-Traxions. These useful doo-dads allow an instructor to "shadow" a team of three by jumping onto and off of ropes at will. I've started using one and have taken numerous falls without any bad side effect to myself, the rope, or the device. I am using a static line too, to save the wear on my dynamics.

[alexbaker]

My advice:

 

Reread mtnfreaks post. it is good, and right.

 

Dont tie in short while using a mini traxion for solo top rope. most likely you will have the rope weighted or even tensioned, and tying in short will require you to haul that extra weight with you.

 

Option two is to not weight rope, in order to tie in short periodically. Thats fine, but if you climb as bad as me, good luck tying a knot mid climb. Also, it is a pain in the ass at the beginning when there is no weight on the rope, and just after subsequent tie ins.

 

With that said, i have used this on toprope many a time, and so have many other people. I think it is becoming common practice, and therefore safe. right???...

 

mtn freak: was this one a proper post? i am learning from you.

[JosephH]

Safe with the proviso that at least two have exploded, though I believe that was hauling and leading, not TR.

[sweatinoutliquor]

Not weighting the rope with Mini-traxion has worked for me... I climb a few feet and then pull the rope through. You can tie in short with something like an alpine butterfly or whatever it's called which is pretty easy to tie with one hand. I like the idea of using another rope (with pre-tie knots) better though. Weighting the rope seems like a good idea, but does it limit your mobility side to side? I would see this especially if it was tensioned... Not tieing in short and soloing using the mini-traxion to me is putting an awful lot of trust (ie. your life) in the hands of a mechnical device that has been known to fail (explode). If that thing goes you have no backup. Personally I don't like the idea of soloing without any backup.

[alexbaker]

hmmm. side to side. i havent done a route that traversed enough to find that out. i do understand the idea of having only one little clutch between you and the ground. but, i know of pros that do it so it must be completely safe and fail proof. right. anyway, this topic has been beat to shit eh? go out there and learn for yourself i say, then tell us when then thing breaks.

 

good luck friends

[MCash]

I have used the Ushba Basic for a couple years TR soloing. It is simple to use and works really well. Cheap too.

[Squid]

A quick shout-out to the Wild Country Ropeman II (not the Ropeman I). It's relatively inexpensive (~$30?) and very lightweight. You have to pull the slack through- it won't feed itself. There are definitely better tools for the task, but not at the price.

[alexbaker]

for those using the ushba, check supertopo.com good thread, ushba failed.

[Stavrogin]

i read the supertopo thread and will continue to use my ushba

[layedback]

I use the ushba and the m-traxion pending on the situation, I have made the mistake though of grabbing the usba in a fall and zipping down the rope for 10' prior to releasing the usba and stopping. If you rotate the ushba foreward it will slide down the rope due to the lack of teeth on the cam, also seems possible if the rope was over weighted on an overhanging route route you could zip to the ground (assuming you had no back up knots). I like the usba because you do not have to remove it from the rope for wrapping, just rotate and hold. On overhanging or scarry routes I use the m-traxion, on verticle or less routes I use the usba.

 

Tying into the rope below the devise will create slack and that creates the potenial of taking a dynamic fall on the device. Sounds bomber but could cause damage to the rope and the devise. Wieght the rope lighly and tie a back up knot in the rope to keep off the deck. And climb as though you were free soloing.

[soulreaper]

A solution that I've heard to the "what if it (the mini-traxion) fails?" conundrum is to use both a pro-traxion AND a mini-traxion as a backup on a STATIC fixed line. This minimizes the dynamic properties of a fall (as long as the rope is kept weighed/pulled through; you don't want to fall too far on a loop of static line) and also provides a little more resilience as per the rope sheath. Also, you have a redundant system without having to tie in short.

 

P.S. I read on supertopos that the Pro-Traxion is bulky/crappy for top-rope soloing. Having heard the contrary, and not having tried the systems myself, I would imagine it would take some experimenting to find the right system.

Edited December 6, 2005 by soulreaper

[shapp]

been solo toproping for 15+ years with various handle ascenders of various makes with a simple chest harness to orrient the top of the ascender in the correct position. Probably done atleast 1000's of laps with this set up. Have never had any problem at all, not recommended for traversing or wandering pitches though.