Cheney argues against torture restrictions

[Skeezix]

Good idea, Dick!

 

Discuss.

[TREETOAD]

I think it has all been said already, this presidency just keeps getting more pathetic each day.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Good idea, Dick!

 

Discuss.

 

What's the big deal? People suspected of committing crimes or having information pertaining to the commission thereof shouldn't be shown any mercy, should they? Especially America-haters. Shit, they're barely human anyway, so what's the loss? If some scumfucker was going to blow up your granny, and the only way to stop him was to torture him, you'd probably hook up the electrodes yourself!

 

[olyclimber]

Why does the good doctor hate America and her freedoms? Is the good doctor an evil doer? Bring out the electrodes and lets find out.

[Jim]

One - it's the hyprocisy. We're always touting our democratic values and fairness while our actions give a stronger impression.

 

Two - protection of our service men and women. Why do you think John McCain is pushing for this ban? He was there and wants to keep our troops out of harms way if captured in war.

 

Three - We've already signed several treaties respecting the rights of prisioners.

 

Four - It's unethical. We've been practicing renditions for some time now from Iraq and Afganistan by sending prisoners to countries such as Eqypt and Jordan where the CIA lets them do the dirty work and we observe. This plus the revelation of Soviet style prisons in Eastern Europe are a black mark on us. Oh - and by the way, there have been dozens of testimonies collected from people sent to these places, and who were eventually released because they were innocent of any crime and had no information. Opps -sorry about that fingernail thing. One prisoner, who's status we'll never know - because he died in a vat of hot oil. Yep -that's our American values. Do we really want to go down this road?

[catbirdseat]

Of course all that is true. The reason all this shit is going down is just a symptom of a larger problem. The problem is short-sightedness. The Bushies don't have the ability to see beyond the most immediate future. They just don't worry about future consequences. What do you expect of people who got rich via the quick deal, buying and selling companies and baseball teams for the fast buck?

[kix]

Bush: "we do not torture"

 

"Cheney argues against torture restrictions"

 

classic case of left hand right hand disconnect?

[kix]

 

"Carter: Americans were misled on war

Former president says Bush policy is a 'radical departure'

 

Friday, November 4, 2005; Posted: 10:24 p.m. EST (03:24 GMT)

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said Friday that there isn't "any doubt" the American people were misled about the war in Iraq and that President George Bush's policy on the war is a "radical departure from the policies of any president."

[kix]

By radical departure, he means UN-American.

[chucK]

"When the Iraq war began on March 20, 2003, there were many arguments against the invasion. None of the opponents anticipated that the eventual, compelling argument would be the loss of America’s soul: that by occupying Iraq we would take on the attributes of Saddam Hussein and his brutal regime; that 30 months later Americans would be emulating the evil dictator, torturing Iraqis in the same facilities once used by Baathist thugs; that U.S. soldiers would be as feared by Iraqi civilians as were Hussein’s henchman."

 

From here

[Jim]

This is amazing. Instead of investigating why we are running torture prisons, the GOP wants an investigation on how this information was obtained!! You can't make this stuff up:

 

"Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert said the disclosure, first reported last week in The Washington Post, could damage national security.

 

Hastert, R-Illinois, and Frist, R-Tennessee, have asked the chairmen of the House and Senate intelligence committees to look into the origin of the disclosure."

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

One - it's the hyprocisy. We're always touting our democratic values and fairness while our actions give a stronger impression.

 

Two - protection of our service men and women. Why do you think John McCain is pushing for this ban? He was there and wants to keep our troops out of harms way if captured in war.

 

Three - We've already signed several treaties respecting the rights of prisioners.

 

Four - It's unethical. We've been practicing renditions for some time now from Iraq and Afganistan by sending prisoners to countries such as Eqypt and Jordan where the CIA lets them do the dirty work and we observe. This plus the revelation of Soviet style prisons in Eastern Europe are a black mark on us. Oh - and by the way, there have been dozens of testimonies collected from people sent to these places, and who were eventually released because they were innocent of any crime and had no information. Opps -sorry about that fingernail thing. One prisoner, who's status we'll never know - because he died in a vat of hot oil. Yep -that's our American values. Do we really want to go down this road?

 

Ah, that was meant as sarcasm there, friend. DFA's behind you 100% on this one (don't drop the soap!).

 

[sexual_chocolate]

Great. There goes my grandma. Thanks, doc.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Great. There goes my grandma. Thanks, doc.

 

See? Bet that's the last time you let Al Qaeda off without a few bamboo slivers under the fingernails. Tsk tsk tsk. Silly spineless liberal.

[Orange_Julius]

Well what the hell are you supposed to do once you smoke 'em out? Logically, the answer is GIT 'EM. If they start putting restrictions on GIT 'EM than it's really not worth the effort to do the whole smoking process in the first place.

 

Peanut Butter, Jelly. Bonny, Clyde. Smoke 'em out, git 'em. You cannot have the ying without the yang.

[Skeezix]

Bush - We don't torture, and we don't want any restrictions on our right to torture. Does that mean we can't torture, but we want to torture? How can people listen to this crap and not even blink?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

You cannot have the ying without the yang.

 

Sure you can. Try taking away the yin, however, and you've got problems, you fucking wooly-headed citrus.

 

Oops, time for "Commander in Chief"! Go get 'em, Mac!

[Stonehead]

I would hope that no one seeks procedural maneuvers to thwart overwhelming majorities in both chambers," Mr. McCain said. "A bicameral, bipartisan majority in support of this amendment will prevail. Even if the will of the majority is thwarted this month, if it is thwarted next month, it will not be denied indefinitely. If necessary, and I sincerely hope it is not, I and the co-sponsors of this amendment will seek to add it to every piece of important legislation voted on in the Senate until the will of a substantial bipartisan majority in both houses of Congress prevails."

[mec]

This is amazing. Instead of investigating why we are running torture prisons, the GOP wants an investigation on how this information was obtained!! You can't make this stuff up:

 

"Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert said the disclosure, first reported last week in The Washington Post, could damage national security.

 

Hastert, R-Illinois, and Frist, R-Tennessee, have asked the chairmen of the House and Senate intelligence committees to look into the origin of the disclosure."

 

I agree that we need to investigate the torture too, but something is definitely fuked with our classified system and needs to be looked into. CIA agents are getting outed, secret prisons are being publicized, what's next. I wonder how much the Washington Post paid to get the prison story. To get clearance to see classified stuff, you basically sign your life away if you ever disclose of anything you are not supposed to. Yet, it happens and no one really gets busted.

[chucK]

I think you're confusing "no one really gets busted" with "Karl Rove didn't get busted".

 

You can listen to this report that was on NPR yesterday to get yourself a little bit educated on the subject. There are also plenty of news stories today you can find via Google News that report that the CIA is working with the Justice Department to look into this leak. These stories indicate that this is standard procedure, and people do get busted.

[olyclimber]

They are secretly torturing people at undisclosed locations right now to find the source of the leak.

[ScottP]

[Stonehead]

I agree that we need to investigate the torture too, but something is definitely fuked with our classified system and needs to be looked into. CIA agents are getting outed, secret prisons are being publicized, what's next. I wonder how much the Washington Post paid to get the prison story. To get clearance to see classified stuff, you basically sign your life away if you ever disclose of anything you are not supposed to. Yet, it happens and no one really gets busted.

 

You gotta watch this video:

...in an off-camera meeting with reporters, Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) revealed that the leak likely came from a Senator or Senate staffer who attended a GOP-only meeting with Vice President Dick Cheney last week, where the detention centers were discussed.