Crown Point + drytooling = ???

[John Frieh]

So I’ve been in PDX a little over a year now… during that time I’ve crossed paths with a handful of people who have either climbed at Crown Point or know some one who has. It would be my conclusion that the consensus opinion about the crown is that it is home to a few “moss covered choss” routes which got me thinking: why let a potentially great crag (how many other opportunities besides Beacon offer multipitch opportunities near PDX?) go unused because the rock is shitty? What I am getting at here is how do people feel about multipitch drytool routes on the crown? More specifically:

 

Should the crown remain a trad/aid crag only? Why or why not?

 

Would the addition of drytool routes be acceptable? Why or why not?

 

Would drytooling existing rock climbing routes on the crown be acceptable? Why or why not?

 

If you feel the crown is a quality rock climbing destination why is it that it is not included in the Portland Rock Climbs guidebook?

 

And if not the crown are their other areas on the gorge that would be acceptable (developed or not)? I know the road cut just west of the dalles could potentially house 30 or so 2-4 pitch climbs.

 

Thanks in advance for constructive dialogue espicially from those who have climbed routes on the crown.

[rbw1966]

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I thought there are a couple of routes on Crown listed in the PDX guide. If not, they are surely in the Dodge guide.

 

I'd be more worried about the potential for injuring oneself at Crown Point than damaging any existing routes--the rock quality is so bad that the route is surely different for everyone climbing it. I've only climbed one rock route there (Alpenjaeger) and it was pretty sketchy. Not much pro and even when you can get it, its not terribly inspiring. The routes in the gorge have more historical value (at least to me) than they do rock quality. The boldness of those who first sent those routes is the stuff of nightmares for me. Are you contemplating TR'ing or what?

 

If you are looking at other places for drytooling I can think of a couple that are closer to pdx.

 

Thats my $.02

[corvallisclimb]

If no one else is doing it why shouldnt you be able to go up there and put up some dry tooling routes... after all your the one with the balls to do it. Ruining existing routes is one thing, but there shouldnt be anything stopping you from doing something new there, free, aid or drytool aid.

 

There are 4 existing routes there:

 

West Chimney "Alpenjager" - 5.4/5.5

NE Face "Zucchini Route" - 5.6 A2 or 5.10

Ripping RURP (variation to the zucchini route) - 5.10c A2+ X

Jewl in the Crown - 5.12 sport

 

Good luck and hopefully you pull off something bad ass!

 

BTW send me a pm with wich cds I gave you, I'm slowly but surley finishing your cds up. But have been pretty damn busy job hunting and climbing and stuff.

[John Frieh]

Are you contemplating TR'ing or what?

 

I envision multipitch drytool routes that top out... obviously if people wanted they could free climb these routes also. If natural protection is unavailable or X rated I would equip the routes with fixed gear (ground up of course) and belay station anchors. As Crown isn't wicked overhanging and the terrain as far as I can tell at this point isn't extreme I think it could potentially harbor some fine moderate multipitch drytool routes for individuals (such as myself) relatively new to the whole dt thing and are interested in developing further their dt skills... especially endurance building on long routes (something rocky butte lacks).

 

Would drytooling these routes of "historical value" deface their value? Should I stay off them all together?

 

Anybody else care to comment?

 

If you are looking at other places for drytooling I can think of a couple that are closer to pdx.

 

Where? Hook it up!

 

Ty: check your pms!

[billcoe]

Nolse: I can only speak for myself. Agree with the previous replys and generally I think its a great idea.

 

My only problem with it, and it's not a small concern, is that I think "generally" tooling should be "off trail" and not on good, solid, established routes, and would fear that it may get popular and spread to already crowded places which have good routes, and those routes could gradually become chewed up. Of course, it seems like a low probability of that ever becoming true.

 

Given the nature of the gorge, and the lack of activity due an increadable amount of fluff and grass on the cliffs, coupled with near year round damp wet weather, esp. on the Oregon side, drytooling would be a way to get up some of that stuff which has yet to see the footprint of a person.

 

A note of caution, should you get out there, on lead, putting in bolts......whew......thats admirable, but you might evaluate that on a case by case basis to stay safe. I'm getting "shrinkage" just thinking about a FA up a loose chossy wall trying to put pro into loose rock. You might find yourself putting in 9" bolts for instance in some of those spots. (Use Stainless Steel)

 

I'm not sure how much you've done out there, a quick trip up the well established little 5.5 "Pillars of Hercules" route might have you reevaluating some of the bigger stuff out there. Have you done that route?

 

 

Some of the folks who've gone way out there say it gets way wild and wooly. Ask Wayne for instance what he thinks, he posts here.

 

I ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. Thanks for asking everyone first.

 

Regards:

 

Bill

[rbw1966]

Why Crown Point specifically? If you want multi-pitch DT routes you really could go anywhere along the gorge for spots that have no history.

 

Take a look at some spots along the Clackamas river too.

 

I really think that you should stay off established routes with tools but you can easily scratch around at Crown and not touch one.

[dbb]

Never been there, don't even know what it looks like, but I'd echo bill's statements on bolting. If you're going to be putting in a cragging route, do it right. If you can hang off a tool or sky hook and put in good, thick, and long stainless bolts, by all means do it ground up. If you're trying to make (and of course, you are engineering it) a route that you want repeated, don't be caught up in the egotism of "ground up" at a crag. Just my opinion on establishing cragging routes. In the mountains it's a different story.

[wdietsch]

Isn't Crown Point an Oregon State Park? Does that bring any special considerations/rules/regs ???

Do to it's location in the gorge scenic area I would also expect potential critism by the hard core bird-watchers, tree-huggers, earth-muffins, etc....

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth your efforts ... but I've been wrong before

[John Frieh]

Thanks everyone for some insightful discussion… much appreciated!

 

To clarify it sounds like everyone is echoing the same sediment: dting on crown would be acceptable if I stayed off the established routes however the argument was made why dt on the crown at all if a large number of other viable options exist that have not seen the establishment of any climbing (of any kind) routes. Would that be a correct generalization? Assuming it is I would agree completely.

 

My question and proposal was spurred by a comment made by Ivan one day last year when we were driving to Horse Thief: what if the gorge was granite and not basalt? Or just more sound basalt? My conclusion (I could and generally am wrong) would be the gorge would be home to a lot more climbing and would be a much more desirable climbing destination. But why sit and stew over rock type or composition that doesn’t match one’s climbing interests?

 

What am I getting at? Lots of choss? Drytool routes! And why the crown? No reason… it just happened to fit my criteria:

 

1) the closer to Portland the better (close enough to be able to hit it after work and still finish before dark)

2) easy approach (supports the after work requirement)

3) either potential for tall (multipitch) and moderate (somewhere in the M6 neighborhood) or shorter (single pitch) Mhard (i.e. super overhung).

 

And most importantly:

4) something no one is going to get pissed I bolted it or dt on it.

 

As I will be staying off the crown does anyone has some crags in mind that meet this criteria? Send me the info! I’d like to put some routes in as soon as possible.

 

Thanks again for the insightful spray free discussion.

 

See you out there!

John

[billcoe]

 

 

Realistically, it could be possible that some of the unclimbed cliffs out there are not choss at all under all that wet dirt and grass. DTing on them may in fact be worldclass awesome if you can get some pro.

 

Good luck - should be some interesting TR's!

 

I'm surprised there are so little opinions on this, anyone else want to pipe up?

[rbw1966]

Probably because so few have climbed there. Rooster Rock gets a lot of traffic but I doubt much else out there sees very many ascents.

[BillA]

I think the rock is underrated, it's shitty but it's not all that bad. And from my explorations there are more than four routes out there. We approached the obvious crack system in the middle of the face and found an old rusty pin, though we bailed after two lovely unprotected grass pitches. From what I can tell there's only one bolt on crown of the jewel or whatever the supposed .12 is. You can see a white piece of tat hanging off of it. I don't know, I think it's a cool place, if you're into that sort of thing, I think it would be interesting to see DT routes there.

[John Frieh]

So hook it up! Send me some directions to something you'd like to see cleaned or don't care about...

[JosephH]

NOLse,

 

You really do have a suicidal obsession with CP don't you. Of all the climbing activities the NW offers it's hard for me to imagine ever wanting to climb CP. I simply abhor choss on that scale and not so much for the objective danger as the quality of the climbing itself is so subordinated to staying alive as to take all the joy (such that it is) out of the movement over that stone - but to each his own...

 

As for DT I'd say have at it on any part of that pile, though I think you will be magnifying your risk by applying increased localized pressures/loads on the rock from a pick compared to hands/fingers. It will also reduce your feel somewhat I suspect. As for drilling - ditto if you can really get anything solid in up there have at it...

[billcoe]

Nolse: I have stainless bolts for sale, check your PM's.

 

All I want to see it the TR's, you are definately entering into a new arena with a type of climbing heretofor not seen and done around here. It's kind of exciting and scary at the same time........opps, I just peed on myself.

 

Gimme a moment to clean up........jeeze....

[billcoe]

Opps, kind of got scared thinking about it. I'm back clean and ready to spray.

 

This reminds me of climbers on the white cliffs of Dover. Using ice tools and screws in chalky rock as a new technique to climb the stuff.

 

How about "Gorge brand dirt pickets" and "Gorge brand loose rock deadmans"?

 

Remember to send the residuals to me in case this takes off and you get rich selling tools to this new breed of dirt climber.

[Hanger]

"My question and proposal was spurred by a comment made by Ivan"

 

That explains it.

 

Any advances in the project?

[John Frieh]

Any advances in the project?

 

Sorry for the belated response... I just saw this. Yes progress has been made but not on crown... more in the gorge. Come out to dt night at rocky and we can shoot the shit