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minx

how/why do you choose what you climb?

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the infinite bliss thread got me to thinking...how do you decide which route to climb. the asthetic appeal of the line? general area/location of the route? crack? slab? face? bolted v. no bolts? if bolts do you care about how it was bolted and the location of the climb? adventure? new route? old classic route? alpine or crag? partners choice?

 

 

**** any bickering, whining, snivelling, squabbling, etc leading to bolt/anti-bolt debate will be moved to another thread. that is NOT the question i'm asking******

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Spray? Stay on topic! You must need more coffee Minx! Your clearly delusional grin.gif

 

That said..... How do I decide what route to climb? as i'm still a relative gumby finding my feet I typically look for route reviews in guides, recommendations from friends, and or sweet lines when they strike me (Karate Crack last year, Zebra-Zion right now we really do need a tongue hanging out drooling gremlin!). Then try and spread it around, hard bolts, less hard trad, thin slabs, steep face, sweet cracks (still my favorite).

 

Alpine/Adventure or crag/tame totally varies from week to week. Much to dependant on other factors. Right now I don't have time to be in great shape so alpine is out and cragging is in.

 

Is there anyone here but Poop who's so obscessed with the no bolt/adventure climb ethic that they only climb and enjoy/appreciate remote sketcy alpine trad? (Within reason of course, grid bolting, and bolting cracks is just wrong! All climbing should be done with minimum impact feasible for that line the FA chooses.)

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my infinite nature tends to dissociate into darkness with alpine routes. anything else i will climb depending on whether i cop wood while looking at it. or not.

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Mine is relatively simple. If the weather is good, go alpine. What I do in the alpine is not the point, but it's just getting in the hills. If it happens to be a walk-up, so be it. If the weather is crappy, go cragging and push my rock limits. It might be trad, could be run-out slab--it doesn't really matter. If the weather really sucks, I go backpacking or skiing as is the case this weekend.

 

As for picking specific rock routes, it all depends. Often I look at aesthetics or recommendations of friends. sometimes from the number of stars in a guidebook sends me out on something. I like doing routes that I haven't done before, but if it's a good one, I'll do it again. It's all climbing.

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After some scotch and a few cheap beers it makes perfect sense to get on all sorts of ridiculous routes. When you wake up in the middle of the fire pit the next day after having talked all sorts of shit about doing some route, its too late to give in to logic and common sense.

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After some scotch and a few cheap beers it makes perfect sense to get on all sorts of ridiculous routes. When you wake up in the middle of the fire pit the next day after having talked all sorts of shit about doing some route, its too late to give in to logic and common sense.

 

and right here is a prime example between men and women. smirk.gif as i see it in this situation, after dusting off the ashes, one simply says that the hangover is too intense something more sane must be selected or else i'm going to puke all over my belayer. belayers usually don't like that.

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Perhaps personal ethics are defined as much by what you won't climb as by what you will . . . Is there a line which you absolutely will not cross, regardless of a climb's recommendations, stars, popularity, or aesthetic appeal?

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nope...no line whatsoever...if i see something that looks cool, i go for it...

 

So Jason, what's a route that has high star count/popularity/aesthetic appeal that you WON'T climb?

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Reputation and rating mostly, combined with how I am feeling that day/month/year and what my partner wants to climb.

 

I have climbed in alot of areas, but only extensively in a few, so plenty of great choices/super classics are available most places I go. And it seems like most places have a sort of heirarchy of must-dos.

 

"Why" is another story. Some days I just want an easy, low stress day outside on something easy. Sometimes when feeling strong I want to test myself on a route that's at my physical limit. Sometimes I want a "full value" adventure experience that involves suffering: 'schwacking, gnarly wide cracks, and/or runout crumbly climbing. And sometimes I just want to stay home and drink beer.

 

Reputation is a funny thing though. Sandbags have a way of being highly recommended.

 

These days (for another 18 months anyway) I put alot of thought into those choices because I travel 3000 miles and use up my vacation days to get some decent climbing done. And, while I can stay reasonably strong up here pulling plastic, it's still more or less climbing "off the couch" especially on cracks.

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Absolutely, no climbing on grid bolts! And if you want to climb a crack at least don't clip the bolts next to it. Well, maybe that obscenity the Caldwell trad led on monkey face last year hellno3d.gif. I'd clip those bolts instead of placing micronuts. Of course I can't climb 5.obscene so it's a moo point. grin.gif

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ummm...there's no bolts on that line to clip and it was trotter, not caldwell...but still a good try though...

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nope...no line whatsoever...if i see something that looks cool, i go for it...

Ah, this is not surprising coming from the man who once proclaimed "There are no ethics in climbing." Though I disagree (about the ethics thing), I do respect your consistency.

 

So Jason, what's a route that has high star count/popularity/aesthetic appeal that you WON'T climb?

I have yet to encounter the route that was established with such disregard to the established ethics of the area as to dissuade me from stepping up to it. Which isn't to say it isn't out there . . .

 

On the one hand, climbing a chipped route isn't going to change the fact that it is a chipped route. But on the other hand, climbing a chipped route is, in effect, condoning the act of chipping in the first place. It becomes a (difficult) question of the ends justifying the means.

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Most people only climb clean, safe routes they can get all sorts of beta on. These days you can climb all sorts of shit without ever actually having any adventure. Follow the instructions, connect the dots. Rap the route.

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"Adventure" could mean a few different things. If you are route finding challenged, or if you are testing your limits you can have an "adventure" on a well documented climb. Or..."adventure" could mean seeing some possible line and going to see if it is possible to climb (regardless if it is climbed 200 times a year and tons of beta exists for the line). But I'm not a lawyer, so this probably wouldn't hold up in court. wink.gif

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Most people only climb clean, safe routes they can get all sorts of beta on. These days you can climb all sorts of shit without ever actually having any adventure. Follow the instructions, connect the dots. Rap the route.

 

spe'd seems a bit cantankerous but makes a good point. where does adventure factor into your climbing plans?

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nope...no line whatsoever...if i see something that looks cool, i go for it...

Ah, this is not surprising coming from the man who once proclaimed "There are no ethics in climbing." Though I disagree (about the ethics thing), I do respect your consistency.

 

So Jason, what's a route that has high star count/popularity/aesthetic appeal that you WON'T climb?

I have yet to encounter the route that was established with such disregard to the established ethics of the area as to dissuade me from stepping up to it. Which isn't to say it isn't out there . . .

 

On the one hand, climbing a chipped route isn't going to change the fact that it is a chipped route. But on the other hand, climbing a chipped route is, in effect, condoning the act of chipping in the first place. It becomes a (difficult) question of the ends justifying the means.

 

well jason...stay away from smith and live in la la land...

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Like wazzumntr, I get out just to get out, looking for longer alpine climbs within my ability. Its come to the point where I've picked all the low-hanging fruit, and need to actually become good to get onto new stuff.

 

I'm eating my wheaties in the am, burying my nose in the beckeys in the pm, and looking forward to the weekends. bigdrink.gif

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"Adventure" could mean a few different things. If you are route finding challenged, or if you are testing your limits you can have an "adventure" on a well documented climb. Or..."adventure" could mean seeing some possible line and going to see if it is possible to climb (regardless if it is climbed 200 times a year and tons of beta exists for the line). But I'm not a lawyer, so this probably wouldn't hold up in court. wink.gif

 

The definition of adventure is easy - when you don't know what's coming up next. Doesn't necessarily mean a first ascent. But usually more obscure or less-known routes, at least, have more adventure, since the fact that the fourth move on the second pitch requires a red horizontal alien in a pod with a committing left foot smear isn't known till you get there.

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The definition of adventure is easy - when you don't know what's coming up next. Doesn't necessarily mean a first ascent. But usually more obscure or less-known routes, at least, have more adventure, since the fact that the fourth move on the second pitch requires a red horizontal alien in a pod with a committing left foot smear isn't known till you get there.

 

We could write guide books that have bad information and call them "Adventure Guides"...since the information was bad, and it actually called for a blue alien it would be more of an adventure. But these books already exist, don't they smirk.gif But yes...I do agree on your definition of adventure.

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well jason...stay away from smith and live in la la land...

I'm not living in la la land. Quite the opposite. I'm well aware there are chipped routes at Smith. I've probably even climbed a few. I know a person that has pried away huge blocks and chipped nearly entire routes there. Granted, the lines and moves look good. But at what point does it become justifiable to debase the rock for the sake of creating a route?

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I'm sure you are speaking of Adam...well, my hat's off to him...if he has enough iniative to go out to the mudpile and scrape something fun/interesting/challenging out of it, that's just awesome in my book...

 

I love it when people sit back and bitch about stuff, but don't actually put any elbow grease into developing an area...just gripe and complain and then actually go climb something that was prepped w/ a ton of work...that is LAME and sanctimonius in my book...

 

debasing the rock? the rock doesn't care...now if you were removing challenges for future climbers, i understand that point of view, but no one else is developing anything there and the lines that A has put up, no one else was interested in...

 

granite is clean as is quartzite, but smith is a shitpile of compressed mud and the amount of cleaning and prepping a route requires is just atrocious...have you tried to do any new routing there? you might not make statements like you've made...

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Ah . . . not bitching or complaining; just fleshing out some of the grey areas by providing some counterpoint to your arguments, Rudy.

 

I have the utmost respect for Adam as a climber and a person. He is exactly who he is and makes no apologies or justifications to anybody for it.

 

However, I'm not entirely convinced that chipping is an acceptable means of route development. But at the same time, I realize that there are no absolutes. I don't expect anybody to live up to the same standards as me, hold the rock sacred, or even see chipping as a controversial issue. What I do is my choice, and what you do is yours.

 

No, I haven't developed anything at Smith. But I have developed trad routes in Oregon that involved copious amounts of trundling, prying, scrubbing, and destruction of plant and tree life. I made a decision as to what means I would use to justify my ends. Route development is, ultimately, a selfish act. And yes, it can be a lot of work. I have even been told to be "less aggressive" in my cleaning tactics, which I'm taking on suggestion.

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