knolwedgable outdoor professionals coming to bend

[bunglehead]

I strongly suspect I'm not the only one who remembers an entirely different Bend than the yuppie hellhole it's become. In fact, when The North Face had plans to open an outlet, it raised concern among a lot of folks. Look at that town now. Sucks. Yuppies are a disease that spread their appearance obsessed lifetstyle like a dark ooze across the planet. Bend isn't the only town they've ruined.

 

On the other hand guys like GAPERTIMMY live there, so there's still hope.

[iain]

Yes, I remember Bend as a sleepy little community as a little kid. I see the same thing happening to Sisters. If you go off the main strip, there has been some startling development in the direction of the farm fields towards the three sisters. I always liked that view of the farms with the sisters as a backdrop. Enjoy it while it's still there.

[Kit]

Well, the PR folks at REI are on the ball with this one. I wrote that letter yesterday evening, and got a response this morning at 10:00am. Here it is... take it as you will.

 

Kit,

 

I appreciate your concern for Bend and your knowledge of REI and its history. If you will bare with me, I would like to comment from two different directions.

 

It is not always the case that outdoor recreation retailers close after REI’s arrival. In fact, there are many cases where more stores have opened. REI assists in growing participation in outdoor sports by welcoming newcomers and connecting people with recreation opportunities. Our inexpensive gear rentals are just one example of how we do this. Bend is a clearly a community where outdoor sports participation has room to grow. Bend is more like Boulder, Colorado, than Bellingham or Spokane.

 

Did you know that Big 5 and G.I. Joes have already located a store in Bend? A large Sportsman’s Warehouse is slated to open soon. One reason REI is continuing store development is that other regional and national retailers have been expanding at a rapid rate. Galyan’s opened four 90,000 square-foot stores in Colorado at about the same time we opened our store in Boulder. Galyans has since been bought out by an even bigger retailer, Dick’s Sports. We hope that our 5,000 current members and the community will be better served by having an REI store located convenient to them. And we also know that those customers may find Sportsman’s Warehouse more convenient, if we don’t.

 

We have to consider the long-term health of the cooperative. If we don’t continue to provide great products and great service, including convenient locations, eventually the ability to be a great co-op will be compromised. We have to adapt our business practices to the changing landscape. Just as the independent shops in Bend are going to have to content with competition whether it is REI, Wal-Mart or Sportsmans Warehouse.

 

I got an email from a Bend resident last week who is leading a fight against a Wal-Mart proposed for Bend. She was hoping REI would participate in an informational campaign to help demonstrate that not all national retailers are the same as Wal-mart. I declined to participate. I had future emails like yours in mind. I know that not everyone will see the difference between REI and Wal-Mart. I can understand why they might see it that way.

 

We hope that REI can be a good citizen in Bend and do a lot to nurture a thriving outdoor recreation community.

 

Mike Foley

REI

Public Affairs

Senior Public Relations Associate

253-395-8252

Cell: 206-920-2391

mfoley@rei.com

[layton]

where do you draw the line between supporting a local business and hoping they do good, and condeming them when they are too big?

also, does less money go into the local economy with stores like REI? people gotta work at both places anyways?

 

i'm not saying i like it. i like having a diverse market instead of the same chain stores everywhere...but how can you stop it from happening while still participating in a capitalist society?

[layton]

one more thing...

 

REI: please stop hiring morons so they will sell useless garbage without feeling bad about it cuz they too don't know any better. i want to put on earplugs when i walk into your store. also, if you're reading this....the empolyees have every right to pro-deals from day one of working there.

[Dru]

If you will bare with me,

 

group nudity? whoah!

[Steddy]

.....there are many cases where more stores have opened.

...Starbucks, Galyans, Dicks, Starbucks, Kwiky Mart...

One reason REI is continuing store development is that other regional and national retailers have been expanding at a rapid rate.

All aboard, now! C'mon and doo the right thing!

Just as the independent shops in Bend are going to have to content with competition

...contend or be happy?

[Couloir]

"Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright? Can I help you? Everything alright?"

[bunglehead]

Gah! That's a dead ringer! also:

"Hey how's it going?" ad naseum

[cj001f]

We have to consider the long-term health of the cooperative. If we don’t continue to provide great products and great service, including convenient locations, eventually the ability to be a great co-op will be compromised. We have to adapt our business practices to the changing landscape. Just as the independent shops in Bend are going to have to content with competition whether it is REI, Wal-Mart or Sportsmans Warehouse.

They aren't a fucking co-op anymore. Try getting on the BOD ballot w/o being nominated (i.e. not a crony). 1% of active members signatures in 3 months. Yes folks, that's 16,000 signatures. What a joke. Of course once your on the board it's $20k a year where you should "expect to be in Seattle 2 days a month". Telling, that they consider Big5 and GIJoes as "competition". I keep wondering if they pitch memberships so heavily to continue to dilute member equity to the point they can go public, or management buyout for a pittance because our equity is so diluted no one would care about the $10 they owe us.

[JayB]

One question worth asking is - why did the small stores go out of business?

 

Seems like the stores that would be at greatest risk are those that make the bulk of their money selling mid-to-upper-mid range soft goods that also carry some gear on the side - and I can see this sort of operation getting crushed by REI. Then again - maybe this is an essential part of any outdoor retailer's income stream and it's simply impossible to get by on high-end gear alone.

 

My hunch is that small stores that focus on selling higher-end gear, and combine a solid selection of hardgoods with put folks on the floor that are friendly, helpful, and know the area - and take care of their customers with great service - are less susceptible to competition from REI - and might even benefit from it. This might be the reason that Feathered Friends moved right across the street from REI when they opened their flagship store - they sensed an opportunity to serve a market that REI couldn't.

 

In Colorado springs the more REIesque gear store went out of business a couple of years after REI opened a store there, and the higher end shop is still going strong.

[cj001f]

One question worth asking is - why did the small stores go out of business?

 

Seems like the stores that would be at greatest risk are those that make the bulk of their money selling mid-to-upper-mid range soft goods that also carry some gear on the side - and I can see this sort of operation getting crushed by REI. Then again - maybe this is an essential part of any outdoor retailer's income stream and it's simply impossible to get by on high-end gear alone.

The margins on hardgoods are 40% or so, clothing 60% - and the clothing market is much larger than the cam market. REI's size allows it to negotiate sale prices that other retailers are unable to offer, in addition to the regular rebate, oh I mean "dividend". I'm not sure there are that many markets large enough to support a highend specialty store in addition to the volume play of REI. Seattle (Feathered Friends), Salt Lake City (IME, also next door to REI), and Boulder (Neptune) have all had some success I venture, while the Bay Area has seen independant shops (high end) disapear - Western Mountaineering, Skinny Skis and Sunrise are a few of those that have disapeared. Washington DC has seen similar carnage - the local chain (Hudson Trail Outfitters) will probably perish when REI turns it's death ray on DC.

 

Maybe I'd be proREI if they offered prices that were truly lower than available locally (like, gasp... Walmart does with consumer goods). I've found most every local shop willing to meet REI's sales (often have better of their own), give a discount comparable to the "dividend", and generally offer better service than the green goblins. REI manages to capture market share through the twin arms of worthless consumption - stripmalls and massadvertising.

[skeletor]

REI's size allows it to negotiate sale prices that other retailers are unable to offer... Maybe I'd be proREI if they offered prices that were truly lower than available locally

 

Seems like you're contradicting yourself. You're criticizing REI for undercutting the competition then saying they don't offer lower prices?

 

I just moved from the Washington, D.C. market. REI has been there for more than 20 years, and HTO has been expanding over that time, not contracting. But there was plenty of gear I just couldn't find in D.C.

 

Now I'm in Bend, and I welcome REI coming. It may not be the perfect climbing store, but then, nothing else in town is either. At least I have the option of ordering online and having them send it to the store for no extra cost. I think the other stores will be able to survive by serving the niches that REI doesn't.

[jlag]

I live in Bend and couldn't disagree with Skeletor more. REI will have a huge impact on smaller outdoor gear stores. How is Redpoint not the perfect climbing store? WHat more are you looking for? Plenty of opportunity of outdoor gear in numerous spots without REI. REI is perfect for Washinghton D.C., not for Central Oregon.

[cj001f]

I just moved from the Washington, D.C. market. REI has been there for more than 20 years, and HTO has been expanding over that time, not contracting. But there was plenty of gear I just couldn't find in D.C.

 

Now I'm in Bend, and I welcome REI coming. It may not be the perfect climbing store, but then, nothing else in town is either. At least I have the option of ordering online and having them send it to the store for no extra cost. I think the other stores will be able to survive by serving the niches that REI doesn't.

Bullshit. REI hasn't been there for 20 years - I went to the opening of the College Park REI in the late 80's. They came after EMS. HTO has expanded, but Potomac Outdoors and Hudson Bay have folded.

 

Whoopee you can order online Any decent climbing shop will special order stuff and allow you too pick it up for free.

[skeletor]

Bullshit. REI hasn't been there for 20 years - I went to the opening of the College Park REI in the late 80's. They came after EMS. HTO has expanded, but Potomac Outdoors and Hudson Bay have folded.

 

Let's see, the 80s... Hmm, my math may be a little rusty but that seems to be about 20 years from 2005...

 

BTW, Hudson Bay didn't fold, They changed their name to Hudson Trail Outfitters because they didn't like to be called HBO...

 

I've been to Redpoint several times looking for specific climbing gear they did not have. Hence my claim that nothing is perfect...

Edited February 16, 2005 by skeletor

[Couloir]

Any decent climbing shop will special order stuff and allow you too pick it up for free.

That's true. I just had US Outdoor order me a MHW Voodoo. They gave me the sale price and I'll have it in a couple of days!

[cj001f]

Let's see, the 80s... Hmm, my math may be a little rusty but that seems to be about 20 years from 2005...

 

BTW, Hudson Bay didn't fold, They changed their name to Hudson Trail Outfitters because they didn't like to be called HBO..

Late 80's = 86 or 87 - less than 20 years, not "over 20" And that was College Park, Bailey's Xroad didn't come until 90 or so.

 

HTO changed their name because the Hudson Bay Company sued them - I was referring to Appalachain Outfitters in Oakton housed in an old house that'd been around for 30 or so years - it may still be there, but not much longer...

 

If Redpoint doesn't have what you want - ask! Odds are they'll at least know what it is, unlike the fools at REI.

[rbw1966]

I don't understand all the bitching. REI has been in Portland for a long time. I don't see US Outdoor, Mountain Shop or Climb Max going out of business any time soon. On the contrary, REI actually closed one of its own stores (the tualatin store).

 

Redpoint et al serve a different niche market. If you don't beleive that go back and read the countless posts bitching about REI in the other forum. Fact is, REI doesn't serve the climbing community anymore. I can't even remember the last time I bought something at REI. Oh yeah, it was for Winter's wedding present.

 

This reminds me of the bitching that went on when Starbucks announced they were opening a store on Division near climb max. Everyone worried that the other coffee shops would suffer. Instead they saw their business grow.

[cj001f]

I don't understand all the bitching. REI has been in Portland for a long time. I don't see US Outdoor, Mountain Shop or Climb Max going out of business any time soon. On the contrary, REI actually closed one of its own stores (the tualatin store).

Portland's a big enough market to support specialty stores (see above) other areas aren't so lucky.

 

What the else is there to do but bitch when the surf sucks, it's rainy, and you've got to work on your car?

[rbw1966]

Portland's market wasn't much bigger than Bend's is now when REI first entered the city.

[b-rock]

Tualatin store is still open. They closed the one up in Delta Park (actually was convenient for last minute supplies heading North on a Friday...)

[rbw1966]

I think you mean Jantzen Beach. It moved to the Pearl--which is ridiculously inconvenient.

 

Thanks for the heads up about the Tualatin store. I thought it closed. I haven't been in the burbs in a long time.

[cj001f]

I think you mean Jantzen Beach. It moved to the Pearl--which is ridiculously inconvenient.

 

Thanks for the heads up about the Tualatin store. I thought it closed. I haven't been in the burbs in a long time.

They've opened one in the Western Burbs, and one's coming to the East Side. And the opening or the 1st REI was a long, long time ago

[Ireneo_Funes]

I think you mean Jantzen Beach. It moved to the Pearl--which is ridiculously inconvenient.

 

Convenient enough for the REI target market. I think it fits right in.

 

OK, here's a question for you all. When did sandals start costing almost as much as hiking boots? I went in to the Pearl REI last week to get a new pair of Tevas (or similar) and they didn't have anything less than $90.

 

My real question - where can I buy some cheap sandals in Portland?