Random Anger Thoughts.

KaskadskyjKozak · January 21, 2005

Whatever dude. I formed my opinion after being an active member of a fairly middle of the road christian church for 6-7 years. I got tired of seeing little scandals in that community of a few hundred people, where no consequences were imposed as long as they said "sorry, I guess I was a bad Christian. But I have asked for forgiveness and I know God has forgiven me." I also got tired of the way they treat other people who do not walk their exact talk, people of other faiths and non-believers. I finally got so disgusted by the hypocritical holier than thou attitude that I walked and have not looked back. If that makes me biased, so be it.

OK, I can respect that then. I take back my previous post.

EWolfe · January 22, 2005

I believe that Christianity as a religious system is monopolistic, seeking to convert all other beliefs to its narrow perspective.

On the other hand, some of the most generous and kind people I have ever met are Christians.

Go figure.

chirp · January 22, 2005

Seems to me religion is solely responsible for 93.5% of the atrocities that have occurred in the world up to now.

Why do people feel the need to "have" a specific religion? I am NOT dissing those that do but its always a question that makes me wonder.

I was raised with the Baha'i Faith, a religion that espouses personal exploration/logic based study of truth. I respect the ideals but at this point refuse to attach myself to a religion as they all seem like a bunch of "team based" groups.

I accept all and just expect the simple respect and honor of others regardless of their's or my beliefs.

Hell, people in the jungles of Borneo have never hear of jesus or Baja Fresh...should they be condemned for that?

What a load of used coffee grounds.

Stefan · January 25, 2005

Christians don't go to war.

Ahhhh. But how you forget so easily. Remember, there were some Christians out there who voted for George Bush becuase he stood for moral values. I guess these same Christians believe war is a moral value.

Camilo · January 25, 2005

I've got an addition for you Bill: Christians don't support the death penalty. I was raised Catholic and never learned anything about capital punishment being right. As far as the war, people definitely spin it in their own way. Some say it's a just war (even though the Pope didn't) so I think this is point of view issue. As far as calling themselves "pro-life" and supporting the death penalty though, that's pretty much as big a contradiction as I can imagine.

edit: And nolanr, billcoe didn't write this, Bill Simpkins did.

Edited January 25, 2005 by Camilo

rbw1966 · January 25, 2005

Why are you dissing on Billcoe? I dont see him posting anywhere in this thread.

Dechristo · January 25, 2005

Ahh feeyull yore pay-een, duewed.

Part of the problem here is that everyone has their own definition of what constitutes a "Christian"; every self-titling "Christian", whether GWB, Mel Gibson, or church-going Bob, has their own private definition of the term, too - makes for a lot of confusion... and anger.

Surficially, it's the violation of the tenets within your definition that has made you angry. A little deeper, it's the violation of your categorization of what is Good and Evil that upsets you. Deeper still, it's this dualistic operating system you've been taught by this world, which demands you see yourself as separate from all, and creates hypocrisy, circumstantial happiness, greed, conditional love, lust, loneliness and the need to be Right (correct)... or, at least, associate with a club or credo that's perceived to be Right.

It's OK, man; you're doing what you're supposed to do... how's it working for ya?

catbirdseat · January 25, 2005

I'd be interested to read up on what it is that makes people need religion. There has got to be some innate aspect of the human brain that requires us to create an orthodoxy.

The closest I can get to explaining it is that as we evolved big brains and weak bodies in the African savannah, it became important that groups bonded with each other for mutual protection. The need for an orthodoxy helps ensure that individuals don't leave the group and thereby weaken it.

My definition of religion versus philosophy is that religion is something that desires to pull people into a group by making them all think alike. A philosophy is a way of thinking that encourages personal exploration. "Good" philosophies encourage individuals to think for themselves, while at the same time encouraging them to consider the needs of others.

Bogen · January 25, 2005

Human nature, we always try to come up with reasons for stuff like existance. Most of us are uneducated, or just plain dumb, which leads to superstition (don't go quoting Jung back at me.) We are all intrinsically social creatures, which leads to organized superstition, commonly called religion.

nolanr · January 25, 2005

edit: And nolanr, billcoe didn't write this, Bill Simpkins did.

My bad, I stand corrected. This is an interesting thread, people have varied views but it has remained open minded and thought provoking. I agree w/ one of the above posters, it's nearly impossible to come to a consensus on what a "Christian" even is.

catbirdseat · January 25, 2005

Getting back to why George Bush is bad. He's bad because he is driven by a religious dogma. His values were not acquired through a process of personal growth, but, rather were fed to him on a silver spoon, and they are the values of a minority. He chooses to ignore the half of the nation that don't share his views. He is not interested in compromise or in even respecting those who think differently than he.

Because he believes that what he knows comes from God and must therefore be correct, anyone who thinks differently must not be Godly and therefore must be wrong. It makes it very easy to disregard them.

joekania · January 25, 2005

My definition of a Christian was always defined by Jesus' answer to the ? about what was his most important teaching- his answer- to love your neighbor as yourself. This is maybe the most important thing I kept from my 13 yrs of Catholic indoctrination, er, school. To me, that is the basic tenet of christianity, and if you can't hold that one up, you are a poor excuse for a christian. If you extend that forward, how does that fit into GWB's views about gays or war? Where is the love, man? Or maybe W hates his homosexual Arab inner child? And as far as chalking it up to being human, how christian is it to start a war for any reason that is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people? For all the time, planning, and lying to the constituency, er, propaganda, it takes to get a war underway, what, no second thoughts when you pray to Jesus for guidance? And for the record, GWB said in the primary debates that Jesus was his leadership role model. And we're not supposed to judge someone like him who gets elected and promotes himself on the basis of his christianity simply because he too is human?

Bill_Simpkins · January 25, 2005

Its seems many people define Christianity to whatever allows them to do what they would do if they were religious or not. I'm sure this happens with all religions.

Yes, everybody messes up a little. But most Christians in the U.S. mess up on a daily basis, in a BIG way, and don't do anything about it and still call themselves Christians.

Many Christians are repulicans. But republicans are, for the most part, against socialism, which is a bit closer to being a democrat. Republicanism is more on the side of letting people take care of themselves. However Jesus helped people when they where hungry, whether they had a job or not! He helped the sick even if there pain was self inflicted, right? He didn't say "Get a job and Ill feed you" or "if you didn't eat that curry yesterday you wouldn't be sick". Christianity sounds more like socialism to me. Yet these people, who are supposed to believe in helping others, believe in a party that belives in helping yourself.

Go Figure.

ChrisT · January 25, 2005

The Holy Now

There were no formerly heroic times, and there was no formerly pure generation. There is no one here but us chickens, and so it has always been: a people busy and powerful, knowledgeable, ambivalent, important, fearful and self-aware; a people who scheme, promote, deceive and conquer; who pray for their loved ones, and long to flee misery and skip death. It is a weakening and discoloring idea that rustic people knew God personally once upon a time -- or even knew selflessness or courage or literature -- but that it is too late for us. In fact, the absolute is available to everyone in every age. There never was a more holy age than ours, and never a less.

There is no less holiness at this time -- as you are reading this -- than there was the day the Red Sea parted, or that day in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as Ezekiel was a captive by the river Chebar, when the heavens opened and he saw visions of God. There is no whit less enlightenment under the tree by your street than there was under the Buddha's bo tree. There is no whit less might in heaven or on earth than there was the day Jesus said "Maid, arise" to the centurion's daughter, or the day Peter walked on water, or the night Mohammed flew to heaven on a horse. In any instant the sacred may wipe you with its finger. In any instant the bush may flare, your feet may rise, or you may see a bunch of souls in a tree. In any instant you may avail yourself of the power to love your enemies; to accept failure, slander, or the grief of loss; or to endure torture.

Purity's time is always now. Purity is no social phenomenon, a cultural thing whose time we have missed, whose generations are dead, so we can only buy Shaker furniture. "Each and every day the Divine Voice issues from Sinai," says the Talmud. Of eternal fulfillment, Tillich said, "If it is not seen in the present, it cannot be seen at all."

--Annie Dillard, For the Time Being

Bill_Simpkins · January 25, 2005

Additionally, if people were trully generous and caring, there wouldn't be a need for Goverment assistance and a repulican system might be ideal. But the fact is, and shown by the goverment programs in place, that people generally don't help each other enough, and thats why the goverment has to do it.

wally · January 25, 2005

Read the Bible before commenting. Actually it was Lot's daughters who got him drunk and got him in the sack. This is the basis for non-christian opinion on what it is to be a Christian.

KaskadskyjKozak · January 25, 2005

Its seems many people define Christianity to whatever allows them to do what they would do if they were religious or not. I'm sure this happens with all religions.

It seems to me that most people who are secularist, atheist, or anti-religious define Christianity and other religions to be whatever allows them to most conveniently attack it.

Yes, everybody messes up a little. But most Christians in the U.S. mess up on a daily basis, in a BIG way,

What a joke. So if you are NOT a Chrisitian, you are more moral, more ethical, and more consistent in your implementation. I will not claim that Christians are intrinsically better people than anybody else - that would be ridiculuous. Just as is your claim.

And again I point out how easy it is to succeed with lower standards, and how easy it is to overlook the faults of your "friend" (he who agrees with your philosophical and moral worldview) as opposed to your "enemy" (he who does not).

Many Christians are repulicans. But republicans are, for the most part, against socialism, which is a bit closer to being a democrat. Republicanism is more on the side of letting people take care of themselves. However Jesus helped people when they where hungry, whether they had a job or not! He helped the sick even if there pain was self inflicted, right? He didn't say "Get a job and Ill feed you"

You utterly misunderstand and misrepresent the conservative viewpoint. Conservatives believe that it is not the ROLE of government to be in the business of providing social services to the populace. Fiscal conservatives and libertarians further argue that said services are often inefficient, wasteful, corrupt (with little accountability and oversight), and have a sole purpose of buying votes and shoring up POWER in a big government.

All Americans are in general very generous people - whether they are Christian or not, whether they are Republicans or Democrats, conservatives or liberals. A primary differentiation between the latter are that conservatives prefer to donate to private charities and churches, liberals prefer to implement charities through the public coffers of government.

Dru · January 25, 2005

Actually it was Lot's daughters who got him drunk and got him in the sack.

Well hey that makes it all right then! DUUUUDE they slipped him some Rohypnol and he didn't know what he was doing!

Dru · January 25, 2005

Read the Bible before commenting.

Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD . Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

Hey I'm fully in favour of people who insult the bald being mauled to death by killer bears sent by the Lord! I'm bald myself... oh wait that's the Old Testament so this is only reasonable for Jews, not Christians, right

KaskadskyjKozak · January 25, 2005

Well hey that makes it all right then! DUUUUDE they slipped him some Rohypnol and he didn't know what he was doing!

One thing that has always has impressed me about the Bible is how it shows the good and the bad, no pulling punches. Just think how easy it would have been to edit-out these less-than-flattering stories. Consider the story of Exodus where the freed slaves continually gripe and moan about how life was better as slaves, fall back into idolatory, and so on.

Bogen · January 25, 2005

One thing that has always has impressed me about the Bible is how it shows the good and the bad, no pulling punches. Just think how easy it would have been to edit-out these less-than-flattering stories.

Shit dude, you don't think it WASN'T editted?

I don't have the dates in my head, but it was around 400 ad that the bible in its current form was editted and amalgamated from a much larger of body of greek and hebrew writing.

KaskadskyjKozak · January 25, 2005

Shit dude, you don't think it WASN'T editted?

I don't have the dates in my head, but it was around 400 ad that the bible in its current form was editted and amalgamated from a much larger of body of greek and hebrew writing.

That does not refute my point; a lot of unflattering stuff was left in.

Bill_Simpkins · January 25, 2005

Its seems many people define Christianity to whatever allows them to do what they would do if they were religious or not. I'm sure this happens with all religions.

It seems to me that most people who are secularist, atheist, or anti-religious define Christianity and other religions to be whatever allows them to most conveniently attack it.

Yes, everybody messes up a little. But most Christians in the U.S. mess up on a daily basis, in a BIG way,

What a joke. So if you are NOT a Chrisitian, you are more moral, more ethical, and more consistent in your implementation. I will not claim that Christians are intrinsically better people than anybody else - that would be ridiculuous. Just as is your claim.

And again I point out how easy it is to succeed with lower standards, and how easy it is to overlook the faults of your "friend" (he who agrees with your philosophical and moral worldview) as opposed to your "enemy" (he who does not).

Many Christians are repulicans. But republicans are, for the most part, against socialism, which is a bit closer to being a democrat. Republicanism is more on the side of letting people take care of themselves. However Jesus helped people when they where hungry, whether they had a job or not! He helped the sick even if there pain was self inflicted, right? He didn't say "Get a job and Ill feed you"

You utterly misunderstand and misrepresent the conservative viewpoint. Conservatives believe that it is not the ROLE of government to be in the business of providing social services to the populace. Fiscal conservatives and libertarians further argue that said services are often inefficient, wasteful, corrupt (with little accountability and oversight), and have a sole purpose of buying votes and shoring up POWER in a big government.

All Americans are in general very generous people - whether they are Christian or not, whether they are Republicans or Democrats, conservatives or liberals. A primary differentiation between the latter are that conservatives prefer to donate to private charities and churches, liberals prefer to implement charities through the public coffers of government.

I apologize for not being more clear. I didn't mean that Christians mess up more than anyone else. That would be a silly statement! I meant that you are not Christian if you mess up every day and do nothing about it. You can call yourself Christian, but obviously are not, and obviously don't live like one should. Many Christians (and most people) knowingly do daily activities that are not "Christian-like" and do nothing about it.

My big idea is, that it is my opinion that to have a meaning existence with your religion, you have to live by it or your not in it, period.

For example: a said Christian that owns a gun, is not a Christian.

I work in a recording studio. And most christian bands that come in are totally into themselves. I don't view them as christians either. There have been a few exceptions.

I went out with this one girl who was a hardcore christian, and her family was too. She did everything every other 20 year old did. She just found ways to justify it for her religion and felt super guilty every time she "sinned".

I have another group of christian friends who get drunk together every month and play video games. How christian is that? Its not. They screw their Christian girlfriends and feel guilty about it at church.

I have another said christian friend who cheated on his wife with a 16 year old whore in Canada. He goes to church every Sunday and sends his kid to a religious school.

Dark little secrets.

Christians don't do anything worse than any other person. But they do do the same things just as much. They just call themselves something they are not.

These same people vote for GWB because of moral values.

People are so full of shit.

Dru · January 25, 2005

One thing that has always has impressed me about the Bible is how it shows the good and the bad, no pulling punches. Just think how easy it would have been to edit-out these less-than-flattering stories.

Shit dude, you don't think it WASN'T editted?

I don't have the dates in my head, but it was around 400 ad that the bible in its current form was editted and amalgamated from a much larger of body of greek and hebrew writing.

Read all about it!