Ways to protect your self on 4th class rock solo?

[Blakej]

I was wondering if anyone has devoloped methods they use to give them some protection when moving through short but sketchy sections while solo. I though maybe anchoring a rope and prussiking over say a short traverse incase of a fall. Perhaps even placing pro as you go. Then atleast your minimizing your potential dammage and then reversing the process on the way back. Good Idea...Bad idea? Any other suggestions? Disclaimer to the obvious I know I shouldn't solo it if I'm not confident I can climb it but its nice to have a saftey net.

[JosephH]

Probably would just make the call for either free solo or roped solo and act accordingly as opposed to trying to go into some sort of mixed mode.

 

In free solo mode I make myself safe by staying calm, focused, and deliberate. I'd suggest you do some roped soloing and digest that for awhile before doing even easy free solos and ease your way into total self-reliance.

[Rad]

Calm, focused, and deliberate is good advice. Sounds like Peter Croft. Sometimes one wants a little more security...

 

On a few occasions getting to or from a technical climb I have come to a move I hesitated to free solo. At those times I had the rack with me so I clipped a long sling to my harness, placed a piece above me (when going up, have done this downclimbing too) to protect the move and cleaned it after making the move. If you have more than one move you could place a piece, move up, place the 2nd piece, clean the first, move up, clean the 2nd etc.

 

This quick and dirty system is just what I improvised at the time. It may not work in many situations, and I'd not recommend doing it for more than a few moves.

 

Disadvantages: you're trusting yourself to one piece at a time. Best for short sections with good pro options.

Pros: safer than free solo and faster than dealing with a rope.

 

Sometimes safer/less exposed alternate routes can be found nearby so keep your eyes open. Turning around is sometimes the best option, even if it can be hard to make yourself do it.

 

Good luck and use your head.

[Blakej]

Is roped soloing not what I was describing or somthing completely different?

[dberdinka]

So 4th class rock likely has small trees or good rock flakes on it. Bring an 8mm dynamic rope, hopefully something short like 30 meters long. Tie into one end of it. At the base of a stretch of rock you want to self-belay tie a sling around a solid anchor (tree,flake,nut,piton). Pass your rope through the sling and tie into it with a clovehitch on a biner maybe 20' from the end you tied directly into your harness. Now you can climb 10' before the loop of rope comes tight against the anchor. Now tie several clovehitches on seperate biners with about 20' of slack between each one. Now you can....

 

climb 10' and undo the first knot.

climb another 10' and undo the second knot

climb another 10' and undo the last knot

 

now the single strand of rope from your harness tie-in is just lying through the anchor. Keep climbing, having left only a sling behind.

 

Need be you could place pro as well, leaving it behind or pulling it as you go.

 

The whole point being at the top of the hard bit you don't need to anchor the rope,rappel, undo the lower anchor and reclimb the pitch.

[Alpinfox]

...I clipped a long sling to my harness, placed a piece above me (when going up, have done this downclimbing too) to protect the move and cleaned it after making the move.

 

I've done this once or twice also, but I think that falling with nothing between you and the piece but a sling (non-dynamic) would result in a lot of force on the pro, so you gotta make sure the piece is bomber.

[snoboy]

Throw a screamer in on the end of the sling...

[chucK]

Don't forget that you can often make many of the moves easier and safer by using your (bomber) pro as holds.

 

You probably know downclimbing is harder than upclimbing. Bring a rap rope.

[Alpinfox]

Throw a screamer in on the end of the sling...

 

First the Reverso as ascender thing and now this. Snoboy is schoolin' me! Good idea.

[Rad]

So 4th class rock likely has small trees or good rock flakes on it. Bring an 8mm dynamic rope, hopefully something short like 30 meters long. Tie into one end of it. At the base of a stretch of rock you want to self-belay tie a sling around a solid anchor (tree,flake,nut,piton). Pass your rope through the sling and tie into it with a clovehitch on a biner maybe 20' from the end you tied directly into your harness. Now you can climb 10' before the loop of rope comes tight against the anchor. Now tie several clovehitches on seperate biners with about 20' of slack between each one. Now you can....

 

climb 10' and undo the first knot.

climb another 10' and undo the second knot

climb another 10' and undo the last knot

 

Interesting. So if you climb 10m and don't place pro after the anchor you're looking at a 20m fall on 20m of rope (a factor 1 fall)? In that case the stout tree is starting to sound a lot better than the piton or single nut anchor.

 

Placing slings or pro along the way could reduce the fall length by a lot, but then you'd have to leave that pro behind...

[Alpinfox]

Placing slings or pro along the way could reduce the fall length by a lot, but then you'd have to leave that pro behind...

 

I am all for this approach. All I ask is that you let me know what route you are doing and when so that I can, um... make sure your placements were good?

[dberdinka]

Placing slings or pro along the way could reduce the fall length by a lot, but then you'd have to leave that pro behind...

 

I am all for this approach. All I ask is that you let me know what route you are doing and when so that I can, um... make sure your placements were good?

 

I never claimed it was cheap. However it works and does have a place, particularly in an alpine enviroment where difficult sections are typically short and rock flakes abound for both anchors and pro. I used it once and felt fairly secure.

 

Hi Rad

[JosephH]

BlakeJ,

 

I was responding to the aspect of your question relative to "short sections". As others have stated you can sling yourself with protection through individual moves, but my comments were relative to getting all geared up for a regular roped solo versus just free soloing.

 

I've been rope soloing regularly for 30 years or so (did several pitches of it yesterday out at Beacon) and had always used a method called the Yosemite Roped Solo technique (YRS) which I won't go into since this summer my friend Bud "Arturo" Smith convinced me to just use a small pack for the rope and a grigri. He's right, it is somewhat simpler and works fine.

 

1) Stack the rope in a small backpack

 

2) Tie a figure 8 in the end coming out of the backpack and a knot in the other end.

 

3) Clip the figure 8 to a screamer on an solid upward pull anchor (with lockers on both sides of the screamer)

 

4) put the rope on the grigri and the grigri on your harnesses belay ring so both rope ends face downward. (IMPORTANT: make sure the rope from the anchor is on the "climber" picture side of the grigri)

 

5) Climb normally reaching up and throwing more rope out of the pack as you go and be aware that at a certain distance the weight of the hanging rope can cause rope to start running through the grigri on its own pooling down around the anchor - clove hitch to a piece of pro about every 30-40' feet to stop this.

 

6) When you get to the end of your pitch (or the rope) tie a figure 8 into the rope and set it up on the anchor, leave the pack, rap the rope, teardown the first anchor and remove the figure 8, clean the pitch, restack the rope in the pack.

 

7) Repeat.

 

Be aware there is a plethora of thought and debate around the use of grigris (regular and modified) for roped soloing; ditto for using clove hitches or other knots for backup while using this technique. I'm sure if you punch "roped solo" and "gri gri" into google or on this site you'd get plenty of info. I've done about 20 or 30 multi-pitch roped solos since the start of summer this way (with an unmodified grigri and no backup knot), taken falls, and with careful management it's all quite fine.

 

But back to the original question, I probably would just free solo through short sections of approach / descent versus gearing up for the full roped solo deal - but, again, free soloing is dead serious business and I don't encourage anyone to do. It is an individual decision and I make no judgment of those that indulge or abstain.

[Alpinfox]

clove hitch to a piece of pro about every 30-40' feet to stop this.

 

 

This will result in a factor 2 fall onto that piece if you fall above it without intermediate pro.

 

I guess a lot of people do this though. I don't know shizzle about roped solo climbing.

[Dru]

Hey y'all - it's just Class 4. If you feel the need to protect yourself perhaps you should have chosen a 3rd class route instead.

[JosephH]

Alpinfox,

 

This will result in a factor 2 fall onto that piece if you fall above it without intermediate pro.

 

Yeah, it will. It's a trade-off between the rope getting away from you from the weight or tying off pro every now and then. I frankly don't tie off very often as I mind the rope pretty close. I also feel pretty confident in the pro I place and typically am not concerned about the first piece blowing for that reason as the next will do its job. When I am concerned about it I throw in two pieces in the same place or in close proximity and only clove hitch the top one.

 

I've taken falls in this situation/configuration and it hasn't been a problem, though one should never say never - but again, like so much of trad leading, it's all about constant monitoring and occasional compromises (such as deciding whether to place pro at a lousy spot or climbing on hoping for better...).

[JosephH]

Dru,

 

Hey y'all - it's just Class 4. If you feel the need to protect yourself perhaps you should have chosen a 3rd class route instead.

 

Direct as always, and pretty much spot on...

[mattp]

I've climbed a few things ropeless where, at least at some point, I wished I had a rope. I've also done some significant climbs with a self belay, and been happy with the result. "If you need some kind of pro, perhaps you should have chosen a third class route instead" sounds just a tad bit bragadocious to me.

[Dru]

Mattp: class 4 climbing is generally considered to be climbable without using pro. A climber considering using pro, and or a self belay, on class 4 climbs should consider dropping the commitment level instead. Why? Because they aren't confident in climbing at the necessary level. The question was not "How should I self belay on 5.12" or "Significant climbs I have done without a rope". Please stay on topic.

[Blakej]

My original question wasn't really directed specifically at pro but protection or shall we say security. Placing pro along the way was just part of the question as in is it useful. I doubt I am alone in the fact that I dont really like the idea scrambling out over some 4th class choss that if I fall I will die without some type of safty net. Everybodys advice has been very interesting and helpful. Thanks.

[JosephH]

Mattp,

 

I've climbed a few things ropeless where, at least at some point, I wished I had a rope. I've also done some significant climbs with a self belay, and been happy with the result. "If you need some kind of pro, perhaps you should have chosen a third class route instead" sounds just a tad bit bragadocious to me.

 

Ok, you got me - I should have said "Direct as always, BUT pretty much spot on...". Hey, this is Dru we're talking about, a little sensitivity please...

[Billygoat]

Bolt Gun

[AlpineK]

Ok I'll bite. You shouldn't solo if you feel uncomfortable. Take a partner and do a running belay. That's the fastest way I can think of.

 

If you ever aspire to climb long alpine routes you will eventually have to solo 4th and easy 5th class rock so you can climb fast. You need to work up to that though...

[mattp]

Dru-

I'm well aware of the definition of "4th class." It does not mean terrain where some would scramble and others would call for a rope - that is "3rd class." Properly speaking, the term "4th class" was defined as terrain where you use a belay but not intermediate points of protection. I am also aware of the realities on the ground. I believe you are too, and I would be EXTREMELY surprised if there had never been something that the book said was 4th class where the great Dru did not think he wanted a quick belay. And I bet he didn't always go wimpering home and say "I should have lowered my commitment."

 

Blake alreay wrote "Disclaimer to the obvious I know I shouldn't solo it if I'm not confident I can climb it but its nice to have a saftey net." Yours was the off track "remark."

[mattp]

I'm with you there, Mr. K, but I also think that going out alone and relying solely upon one's own judgment and gumption can contribuite to becoming a proficient climber. Sometimes we will over-estimate a route and other times we will under-estimate one (or our own combineation of skill, energy and confidence on a particular day). The idea is to not get killed and not to have to call for a rescue in the process.