Rack weight

[Kevin_Matlock]

I'm putting together my first alpine rack. I've read lots of opions of what TO and what NOT to carrying, but how about the overall weight that you are dragging into the mountains. I'm just trying to compare what I have to what others are carrying. Give me your best guesstimates; be it in pounds, kilos, dramms, sixpacks, hamsters, etc.

 

In case you wondered, I'm not talking about the rack weight of a certain Mrs. Federline:

http://www.liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/britneys_breasts.asp

[Gary_Yngve]

Double slings are useful in the alpine, both for slinging natural pro and reducing ropedrag from wandering pitches.

 

As for rack weight, it's sort of silly to ask others (no offense intended). It all depends on rock climbing skill, willingness to take risk, etc. For an alpine route that's low-5th, I might not bring more than a few nuts and tricams and a #7 hex. For a harder route, I'll bring more. How many slings to bring? How many pieces of pro do you want to place per pitch? Or do you want to bring more so you can simul longer? The best way to figure it out is to try something, see how it works, and then adjust.

[Kevin_Matlock]

Well, yeah, that's pretty much the stock answer I should have thought of.

But let me ask it again, is there a "base set" or peices that people usually rack up for most climbs? If so, what is the default set of gear people are taking along. Provided that there are no unusuall requirements, etc.

Maybe this is impossible to answer?

[Squid]

Ok, here goes:

A set of Metolius TCUS (#00-#4), Metolius powercams (#5-#10), Bd stoppers (#4-#13), 6 double slings, 4 single slings, 20 neutrinos.

 

Cams = 1630g

Nuts = 437g

Biners = 720g

Slings = 112g

Total = 2899g

 

Given that every manufacturer lies about the weight of their gear, you're probably carrying a little over 3kg.

 

Hope that helps.

[AlpineK]

I think you need to study the climb you plan on doing and know your climbing ability. After that you should bring the least amount of gear that will make you feel safe.

 

I don't know weights, but here's what I would bring.

 

A set of stoppers

A set of Tricams...they're lighter than cams and I love em.

Enough cams to make me feel happy.

Enough slings/quickdraws to place gear on the hardest pitch.

[Gary_Yngve]

Ok, here goes:

A set of Metolius TCUS (#00-#4), Metolius powercams (#5-#10), Bd stoppers (#4-#13), 6 double slings, 4 single slings, 20 neutrinos.

 

Going from Squid's list, the first pieces I'd drop would be #00 and #0 cams (they're not full-strength pro). Unless the route description suggests it, you could probably drop the #10 cam. A more precise route description may say only pro to 2.5" or 3", in which case you could leave behind more large cams.

 

But the reason why Squid listed all that is because they'll more than likely be useful at some point, and they're cheapest as a set.

[Squid]

Exactly. That would be a servicable starting rack- as you grow, you'll figure out what you can leave behind. I'm still learning.

[fenderfour]

You should always get as much info about a route before you go. That will enable you to pare down your rack as much as possible.

 

Nelson suggests a superlight rack on his sight: Superlight Rack

 

I have been meaning to try it out, but I am one of those people who always brings too much gear.

 

I'm a big fan of the DMM cams. They have a nice action and they are quite a bit lighter than Camalots. Nelson even says that the largest DMM cam weighs less than a #11 hex.

 

I also like the new Mammut super-skinny slings. I will bring 6-8 of those equipped with lightweight 'biners and 2-3 tied doubles. I can cut up the doubles for rap slings on the way down if need be.

[Winter]

DMM cams are a good way to cut down on weight and cost, but I don't really like mine that much. They have a real narrow range, they walk and they get stuck super easy. But if you don't mind the precise placements you need, then go for them.

 

I actually think the new friends may weigh less, but they cost a lot more.

[Bill_Simpkins]

I've never needed double sizes on easier routes, like 5.5 or less. On those, I usually just bring 4-5 tcus and cams to 3-4" above that, but no overlaps with the tcus or cams.

Again, varies per individual.

There are many ways to keep rack weight down.

Light biners is important, less gear and light slings help a lot. The trango superfly biners with the mammut dyneema has saved a lot of weight and space for me.

-Another that has resently helped are the Camp Bolo nuts. There are two stoppers per cable. To get a full range you only need 3 of the 6 plus 3 BD stoppers.

BD stoppers #3-13: 396 grams

Camp Bolo Set,6 total (10mm-33mm): 296 grams

Camp Bolo #1,3,5 stoppers (10mm-29mm): 130 grams

Camp Bolo #1,3,5+BD #3,5,7 : 214 grams

 

If the Alpine routes are harder, I go with a full set of BD's, else I use the Bolos with a couple smaller BD's thrown in.

Tricams work ok for larger nut sizes and are good for whatever, especially belays. If the rock is really grainy and chossy, I try leaving small hexes and tiny nuts at home.

Usually you can find a place for the gear you bring.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

[chucK]

Don't get cheap cams. Get the ones you like.

 

2-3 double slings is heavy and unnecessary. If you need to lengthen a sling on a placement, clip two slings together.

 

If you need to loop a big boulder or something, use your cordelette.

 

If you want to bring rap webbing, buy 20 feet of that lightweight stuff and stick it in your pack (and bring a lightweight knife).

[Bill_Simpkins]

You can make your cordellette of webbing that you can cut up for rappells.

[ScottP]

Or you can cut up your perlon cordelette for rappells

[Alpinfox]

 

Rack is dependent on route difficulty, crack sizes (usually the guidebook will give you some idea), and climber's skill/comfort level.

 

The lightest alpine rack I've ever carried was on NE ridge of Triumph and comprised a halfset of stoppers (the odd numbered ones I think), Metolius TCUs (#1 Blue, and #2 yellow), 0.5/1.0 tricams, BD cams (0.5, 0.75, 1.0), a couple of larger hexes, and about 6 single length runners.

[John Frieh]

Kevin

 

You might want to specify a few things in your request to get a more specific answer.

 

Are you climbing:

 

- A first ascent/ few repeats route or an established route?

- rock type?

- snow and ice expected?

- winter or summer conditions?

 

As you are inquiring about your first alpine rack I’m going to guess you are looking to cut your teeth on some established, well traveled routes. Unless the route calls for pins specifically, leave them at home.

 

If it does call for pins, determine the rock type you will be climbing. The type of rock will dictate which pins to bring (i.e. granite vs limestone).

 

The weather conditions will also impact both your pin and rack selection. In winter smaller cracks tend to fill with ice/snow. Scraping/cleaning them out is sometimes an option but a quicker/safer alternative is to drive a pin home in the muck. A well placed pin (emphasis on well placed) is a bomber, multi directional piece that can protect big falls. Bottom line: conditions and rock type will cause racks to vary from 3 – 8 pins.

 

A generic rack follows:

 

The basics of a rack are your chocks: take a partial set… your smallest chock should be the next size up above your biggest pin and your largest chock should be right below your smallest cam. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 chocks…

 

Cams: 4-7 cams. Rack should include 1, 2, 3, 4 camalot (minimum) or equivalent. # 4 camalot can replaced with # 11 BD hex. If you need more than this or will be in icy conditions take corresponding hexes… you can pound hexes into icy cracks than won’t take a cam. I prefer metolius curved hexes.

 

Biners: No more than 50… you should attempt to make this number as small as possible. A few of the wiregates on the market are so light that 2 together are lighter than 1 locker... take these in place of any lockers you might want (with exception of your belay biner) as the two are more useful than the 1 locker and as safe when opposite and opposed. Any lockers you do take should have plastic sleeves (Petzl makes them) as metal locking sleeves/gates love to freeze shut. Generally I take 1 belay biner locker and the rest wire gates. Minimize the number (rack multiple pieces of rock pro on 1 biner, etc). Draw the line at 50.

 

Draws: route will dictate… Generally 8 - 24”, 2 - 48” rabbit runners, and 1 – 3 screamers. Put a screamer in each anchor if the terrain is spicy.

 

Ice screws: 0 – 6. Route will dictate. Bring a V thread rigger (the grivel one is awesome and has a knife built in).

 

Extra: knife, 3 step aiders (tie there out of webbing so you can untie and use as rap material on the way down), prussic/belay escape material, 2 webolettes (14’ is good length and you can cut it up).

 

Additional items (jumars, pickets, hooks, etc) will be dictated by the route.. you need to anticipate route needs.

 

Spend some time out there and figure out what you prefer… climb safe!

[eric8]

If you have not bought slings yet get some of those super light mammut ones, I climbed with a new partner this week, who had all mammut slings with trango superfly biners and it was awesome. Not just it terms of weight but bulk too

 

and forged friends are still the lightest, and cheapest cam available but don't go smaller than number 2 there, use tcus

[Dru]

Rack is dependent on route difficulty, crack sizes (usually the guidebook will give you some idea), and climber's skill/comfort level.

 

The lightest alpine rack I've ever carried was on NE ridge of Triumph and comprised a halfset of stoppers (the odd numbered ones I think), Metolius TCUs (#1 Blue, and #2 yellow), 0.5/1.0 tricams, BD cams (0.5, 0.75, 1.0), a couple of larger hexes, and about 6 single length runners.

 

the lightest alpine rack I've ever carried was my ballz

[Alpinfox]

the lightest alpine rack I've ever carried was my ballz

 

The heaviest alpine rack I've ever carried is my ballz.

 

 

 

Back on topic...

I bought one of those 8mm Mammut slings today. A double length one. It's a little spooky how skinny they are, but it sure is nice how non-bulky they are. I'd like to replace a lot of my biners with those Trango superflys.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Those trango superflys rule! I like how they feel too.

[AJScott]

This last weekend at Wa pass I noticed a group who had about 6 of those mammut slings and wired gate biners, and as soon as I saw them I knew I would have to spend some money soon. It looks like a really light and effective setup for "wandering alpine routes."

[Bill_Simpkins]

They rule. I use three 24" tripled and three 12" tripled, then four 24" on my shoulder and one 48" on my shoulder all with Trango superflys.

[eric8]

This last weekend at Wa pass I noticed a group who had about 6 of those mammut slings and wired gate biners,

 

What route?

[AJScott]

I believe they said they came up the East Buttress on South Early Winter Spire.

[colt45]

That was me & eric8 last Sat. The mammut sling/trango superfly combo is the way to go--they are actually trimmer and lighter than most quickdraws! I normally carry 12 trick-tripled shoulder-length mammut slings (2 superfly biners each) on a rock route (plus a 7mm cordelette or two for belays, for use as a super-long runner, and to cut for rap slings if necessary).

 

The superfly biners are so light and cheap (I got em for $6.50 w/free shipping & no tax at gearexpress.com) that I am trying to outfit the remainder of my rack with them. In addition to being the lightest biner on the market, they are just as strong as a standard biner.