Free Advice

[AlpineK]

Ah Lambone I was around in 2001. All Cavey's attacks got deleted fairly fast and then he got banned for a while.

 

In your case it's funny watching you throw a temper tantrum. You're doing a good job shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe we'll just let you keep making an ass of yourself.

 

[minx]

spray did need a good kick in the ass.

 

didn't figure it'd come from lambone but hey wtf right??

 

there's entertainment value in this crap too...i guess

[Lambone]

werd....I'll probly see you all at Tuff Love, so don't kick my ass in front of my wife.

 

for me this was all about get fired up to go wall climbing next weekend. mods set themselves up as targets by the way they dictate this site, they need to get knocked off their high horses once in a while, probly will take more Spray then I have got to offer.

 

you can go back to being serious and nice to each other now.

 

SPRAY IS DEAD.....even caveman is a fuckin pansy nowadays, bring back the old cc.com, bring back Trask!

[specialed]

Ha Ha

 

This is funny. As an objective observer I have to side with L-Bone. Moderator's little PM was annoyingly arrogant.

[mattp]

Lammy, maybe you don't want to talk seriously about the WCC cause that would ruin your thread.

 

However, I'd say that if you believe it is the active bolters who are ruining access in Washington, those would be the exact people you'd want to include in an organization like the WCC because it would be them who you'd need to work with in order to change the situation. If you saw such a group forming, if you thought they were engaged in discussions with Forest Sevice officials or others who have some control over access, and if you actually cared about access to climbing in Washington, you'd want to get involved rather than sit on the outside and throw stones -- unless, I suppose, you thought that your stone throwing on cc.com was going to be effective at actually helping the situation somehow. Aside from the fact that it may make you feel good, do you think your rants here will either discourage these evil bolters or that a Forest Service official will read them and conclude that climbers are a group they can work with? I understand some of the anti-bolt arguments on this site, but lets think this through a little bit.

 

The WCC is off to a good start and there are a lot of issues to address. You live in Oregon and have stated that you hope that at least one Washington climbing area is closed down. Even still, you are welcome to show up at a meeting some time and speak your mind. Anybody who lives around here and cares about climbing is more than welcome to get involved.

[Lambone]

mattp, respectfully...

 

First off all, I didn't want to throw stones at the WCC...which is why I made my brief comment and dropped it. But since you want to continue the discussion, here is my opinion...that is if opinions are still allowed by the offical moderator rule book.

 

It all depends on what their motives are. Which I'm not sure of since no offcial stance other than "protect access" has been published that I am aware of. Maybe it has....

 

I know Andrew Sell and Bryan Burdo personaly. I spent alot of time talking with them and climbing with them at Vertical World while I worked there and they climbed there alot. Both very nice people, who I totaly got along with and appreciated as guests of VW. But I don't necessarily condone or agree with their actions around Washington state. Forinstnace, grid bolting North Bend Areas, New Halem, Mt. Baring...and setting up fixed ropes to work the route all summer long.

 

I'll share one conversation I had with Brian that pretty much set my opinion in stone. We were talking about El Capitan, and he suggested that instead of having cracks with growing pin scars and fixed pieces like copperheads, why not just bolt the cracks to preserve them. We were talking about the "Shield" route in particular. He was dead serious.

 

Now if you don't see the problem with that sort of mentality then well, I don't think anything I can say would help you. Would I want him to go to the FS and speak in my behalf, just because he has alot of experience opening up areas to massive bolting efforts. Hell no.

 

That's all. I would like to get involved, honestly. Maybe someday I will. But for now I'd rather spend the very little free time I have either climbing with buddies or hanging with my wife.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Here we go!!

 

Man that's some good dirt.

 

I have to hand it to lambone. Way to go dude!

 

You sound almost ready to join the nazi, bolt chopping KTK. We chop bolts just for entertainment. We don't need a reason other than to satisfy our own selves by watching the after effects on "climbing society".

[sk]

werd....I'll probly see you all at Tuff Love, so don't kick my ass in front of my wife.

 

for me this was all about get fired up to go wall climbing next weekend. mods set themselves up as targets by the way they dictate this site, they need to get knocked off their high horses once in a while, probly will take more Spray then I have got to offer.

 

you can go back to being serious and nice to each other now.

 

SPRAY IS DEAD.....even caveman is a fuckin pansy nowadays, bring back the old cc.com, bring back Trask!

 

I have to agree with Lamby here... spray should be called "piddle" now

[Lambone]

plus what I said about Darrington is that if it were to get shut down because of bolting issues, there would be no one to blame but you and your friends....who apparently don't respect the guidelines provided by the land managers. You dig your own grave you sleep in it.

 

Personaly I despise slabs and only climb them if they are an unavoidable part of a route that has climbing that I enjoy. So Darrington isn't on my short list of climbing areas to visit. Although I can appreciate that some people like it alot, it sure looks beuatiful in the photos. Too bad a select few people perhaps love the area, but fail to respect the strings attatched.

 

If the same thing happened in Yosemite because of a few people who have in the last few years have been using power drills on El Capitan, I would be devistated, but have essentialy the same opinion, and a severe scorn for those few disrespectfull individuals, who I would just assume see beaten to a pulp.

[willstrickland]

C'mon you fuckin pussy... runout, pee your pants, jedi mind control, sea of nothingness type slab climbing is cool! It's like top stepping on a string of #0 heads...you never know when you're gonna go for the big ride...well in this case, the big SLIDE.

 

Sack up and get after it. If it ain't scary enough for ya, chop some of the bolts on lead....with a power saw.

[Lambone]

ha, yes I suppose I am...

[willstrickland]

I can loan you a cordless Saw-Zall.

[JayB]

With respect to climbing in Darrington, if it weren't for the actions of mattp and his friends - eg the other folks actively developing routes out there - the road that provides access to all of the climbing out there would have been decomissioned a long time ago.

[Lambone]

hmmm... pretty ironic then I guess.

 

whatever, I guess don't know the whole stroy....but who realy does? 1% of the total Washington climbing community...maybe.

[mattp]

I'm not sure that it is fair to say that my friends and I are responsible for the road remaining open, JayB, because I don't know all the specifics of the management priorities and budget matters in the Darrington District. We have worked with them on this and other issues, though, and they have worked with us.

[Lambone]

so lets say the road is closed to to lack of budget for maintenance and has nothing to do with bolts.

 

then what? you have to hike in, or even ride a bike or motorcycle in.

 

so it prevents you from going after work...but is it that much of a tragedy?

 

one complaint I heard is that it will reduce traffic in there so moss will overcome the routes...

 

come on now...I though you Washington hard man were use to pulling cruxes with a brush in one hand...

[Cpt.Caveman]

For the most part I think some moderators do have their heads up each others asses.

 

It is evident there is a circle jerk of power within that group.

 

 

Fuck em.

[mattp]

Whatever, Caveman.

 

Lambone,

Nobody goes there after work even now, but even on a Saturday few would want to make the extra 5 or 6 mile journey to go cragging up there if the road were gated back at the Mountain Loop Highway. Also, in that environment I think we'd see the roadbed deteriorate and the Alders invade pretty quick and we might not be able to use bicycles in a few years. But I'm not following you. Are you suggesting that closing that road would be a good thing?

[Cpt.Caveman]

Whatever, Caveman.

 

Hey I'm entitled to my opinion. If you don't agree that's your stand or whatever. I'm not imposing anything on anyone here. If I do people erase or cut threads. So what?

 

The moderators seem to be complaining more than anyone these days with the premise that actions like mine or my comments are sometimes out of line.

 

Sure it is ok to threaten me but when I get threatened it is ok. I'm not complaining about it since I'd probably kick the guys ass anyway but it certainly makes some look dumb....

 

Expecting the usual defensive posture..

[Lambone]

I'm indiferent....can you follow that?

 

It makes no difference to me that it would be closed, other then I'd feel kind of bad for my friends who like to climb there.

 

are climbers pretty much the only people who use that road? cause it seems the only way to really influence the FS in your benefit would be to get all recreational user groups involved.

 

but also in my eyes, if you do expect them to keep it open and maintained for you....I better not hear you bitching about user fees and NWF parking passes, or Larry the Tool who inforces them.

[mattp]

Whatever, Caveman.

 

Lambone,

The trail to 3:00 Rock is a hiking trail. Hunters and mining history enthusiasts and other recreational users use that valley, and there are some mining claims as well. Climbers probably constitute most of the traffic, though.

 

But again, you make a point that I can't follow. Are you saying that if we like to use roads and trails we have no right to complain about Fee Demo? If so, I definitely disagree. As I understand it, the program is not a very efficient money-maker on a national basis, but it does provide extra funds at the district level since much of the program cost comes from budgets that cannot be used for maintaining trails and roads at the local level. Aside from this, I believe it is just plain wrong for the Forest Service, BLM, and other similar agencies to have used so much public money building roads serving minining, logging, and grazing interests, and otherwise administered the giving away our public resources at a fraction of the true cost, while failing to find funds for hiking trails and roads to trailheads. I have had conversations with local Forest Service employees who have implied that they aren't too psyched about the program either, but it DOES give them some funding.

 

Lastly, your comment about Larry-the-tool is really an odd one. If you had read much of the discussion on this board I think you would have seen it clearly stated that the guy was an obnoxious person to deal with quite apart from the policy that he was enforcing.

[fleblebleb]

I better not hear you bitching about user fees

 

Better not, or else, right?

[scott_harpell]

Free Advice:

Go climb some shit ya pussies

[Cpt.Caveman]

Whatever, Caveman.

 

It's the truth.

[Lambone]

Lambone,

....I believe it is just plain wrong for the Forest Service, BLM, and other similar agencies to have used so much public money building roads serving minining, logging, and grazing interests....

 

whatever mattp

 

one more question. why was this road into the Darrington climbing area built in the first place?

 

Second, multiple questions....your home is made from wood right? And you drive on highways made from gravel? And you eat beef I assume? And you use trailheads tha the FS is expected to maintain?

 

 

argueing with someone who is apparently allways right is a worthless endeavor. This thread is nolonger fun....yet another stale discussion dominated by mr. mattp

 

goodbye