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Alpinfox

URGENT - Infinite Bliss access meeting TODAY

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There is going to be a meeting today (Thursday, 5/26/04) involving the newly formed "Washington Climbers Coalition" (WCC), the Access Fund, the National Forest Service, and the Alpine Lakes Protection Society regarding the climbing route "Infinite Bliss" on the west peak of Mt. Garfield.

 

Under discussion will be the potential hordes of people heading to the route, the impact of the trail itself on animals/plants/habitat and various other stuff. Possible negative outcomes include removal of the route (bolts), a ban on future route development, removal of the trail, prosecution of route developers hellno3d.gif, and other bad stuff.

 

Climbers need to have a voice in this discussion in order to be heard and have our interests addressed/considered. If you are interested in supporting access to this climb and climbs like it in Natl Forest, please contact "The Man" at the address below and let them know that you are a climber and you want to use public land for climbing. The pressure of user groups is what directs public land policy formation. Please speak up to support climbing!

 

Cheers,

-Pax

 

North Bend Ranger Office

42404 SE North Bend Way

North Bend, WA 98045

(425) 888-1421

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The fact is, you guys (and I) do not know what is going on with this issue. Some of us have been trying to the parties involved to get the facts before encouraging a bunch of speculation and jive on this webiste. I hope to be able to present more information here shortly.

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What time is this meeting? I will come and intimidate Toby.

 

Be sure to remind the forest service about their complicity in allowing a crystal mine in the middle fork and the impact that is having as compared to an obscure bolt up climb on Garfield. Be sure to mention the evidence of deforestation and road grading as well as wanton garbage dumping throughout the middle fork. Tell them their enforcement efforts are a joke and remind them that they do not have a fulltime or even a part time FS LE officer in the immediate area and haven't for several years since John left.

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Dude: When I tried to bring up that there was a potential problem, Mattp pulled the post.

 

ah yes the "keep everyone in the dark" approach so famous from the "Rainier speed investigation"

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For people going to this meeting it's important to realize that the Forest Service didnt start this. They are being called upon by ALPS to enforce what ALPS believes is proper administration of the law. ALPS has actually sued the gvernment in the past for this sort of issue.

 

As a washington climber you should realize that people like MattP, Andy Fitz, Brian Burdo, the access fund, etc are all thats keeping the government from shutting down climbing in a number of locations. Its great sport to shout "fuck this or Fuck that"..... but those guys have the character to walk the walk. Even if you dont support everything said you should understand who your friends are.

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Seriously, one trail is hardly making a dent in the deforestation of the area considering all the logging going on down the valley.

 

The forest service just wants to be in total control of their land, hopefully they can be convinced that this trail and route will not be a major impact on the area and that the route will be a plus to the area. maybe offering to put some work into the trail would appease them. i for one would be happy to put in some work if it would help.

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I just spoke to the North Bend Ranger Station front desk. thumbs_up.gif The meeting is in 10 minutes, at 10am, at the Station. The NFS rep and contact for this issue is Bill Sobieralski, who can be emailed at bsobieralski@fs.ed.us

Send in your 2 cents before we get smileysex5.gif!

Special thanks to the NFS lady who answered the call. She wasn't aware of the meeting when I called but very helpful - found out the specifics and gave me Mr. Sobieralski's email.

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Seriously, one trail is hardly making a dent in the deforestation of the area considering all the logging going on down the valley.

 

I never thought about it in this way. You know, a new ski lift near the base of Garfield would probably have less impact than those logging operations. I suppose the existence of a logging operation justifies a bolt trail...and maybe a ski lift as well.

 

People dump trash up there? Really? That's terrible. Following the logic presented to me today, I guess it's OK to throw my Taco-Bell burrito packaging out the window. After all, serious transgressions justify all less-serious transgressions.

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Two questions.

 

What is ALPS?

 

Is bolting on Mt. Garfield against the law?

 

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

 

ALPS: Alpine Lakes Protection Society

 

As far as the route goes, from what I gathered at the WCC meeting is that the first ascentionists looked on the USGS map and it said the route was not on DNR, so they put up the route.

Another map ( I think it was a trail map) showed it was on DNR.

 

Guess what? The USGS map was wrong, as it turned out. hellno3d.gif

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Climbing, sport climbing, mountain climbing are legitimate activities. Doesn't mean they are always legitimate, everywhere. Where do you draw the line? Seems like it should fall somewhere on this side of trying to turn a mountain into a sport route.

 

Nevermind the ethics of climbing (apparently there no longer are any)

 

Infinte Bliss is a huge friggin engineering project with bolts placed to not only ensure safety but to ensure convience as well. If climbers can construct such an entity along with the trail to reach it, why should hunters not be allowed to build cabins, or bikers trails?

 

Furthermore the publicity surrounding the route along with its "sport" designation seems like an accident waiting to happen when you factor in all the alpine characteristics of loose rock, long descent, route finding, weather etc that many a "sport" climber is possibly not equiped and experienced enough to realize and handle. When the clusterf*&k happens who's going to be responsible for the rescue/cleanup? Some element of the government I assume.

 

Climbings great, clipping bolts is sweet, but at some point enough is enough. Good luck!

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Climbing, sport climbing, mountain climbing are legitimate activities. Doesn't mean they are always legitimate, everywhere.

 

True dat. Those of you who know my sentiments on this issue probably think I'm sitting here smugly laughing. This is not entirely true. Honestly, one big route on a face like that...even if it required a few bolts to link natural weaknesses....would ADD TO THE CLIMB EXPERIENCE OF THE CASCADES. I just don't think it would stop with one route, and I don't think the route in question relies significantly on natural gear.

 

Anyway, we're going to have to get back to the point of policing our own behavior or we will soon be viewed like the ATV/hunting crowd. Maybe we already are.

Edited by pope

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Some info on ALPS:

 

from http://yosemite.epa.gov/water/adopt.nsf/0/7301a51ebae6e44f8525653600527fee?OpenDocument

 

Describe your group's purpose, activities, publications, or accomplishments:

To operate exclusively for the purpose of educating and informing its members and the public generally in all matters relating to the protection of the area commonly known as the Alpine Lakes Region in the Cascade mountain range in the State of Washington; and for the purpose of urging the preservation of the natural beauty of that region, its lands, air, and waters, and all its living things; and for the purpose of taking all necessary action to assure that this unique and unspoiled region remains in its natural condition through all the years to come for the ultimate enjoyment of future generations.

 

Number of Volunteers: 250 members

 

We involve ourselves in issues affecting the Alpine Lakes Area in the Cascades Mountains of Washington. General bounds are US 2 on North/Northwest, US 97 on Southeast, I-90 on South, and Mt-Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest boundary on West.

 

Contact Person Information

Name: Jim Chapman

Street Address: 23321 75th Ave W

E-mail Address: jlchap@gte.net

City: Edmonds

Phone #: 425-774-5047

and from their website (www.alpinelakes.org):

For information on ALPS, please contact Rick McGuire at:

 

206.363.6954

rmcguire@alpinelakes.org

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I don't live in Seattle and am not active in the climbing scene up there or access issues in the state so you can tell me to piss off. But, I know the Forest Service pretty damn well.

 

If you want to preserve your access, you better start taking the time and effort to participate in these types of discussions and getting a critical mass of people involved. Even if this route doesn't get chopped, this one case could result in greater access restrictions in the Alpine Lakes area. For those that are taking the lead, you better feed as much information to climbers as you can. I can easily see the FS screwing the climbers in order to keep ALPS happy simply beacause ALPS is better organized to put pressure on the FS.

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what is DNR?

 

Designated National Reserve. wave.gif

 

what is the significance of this designation?

 

is it illegal to place bolts/establish trails in a DNR?

Edited by fern

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If you want to preserve your access, you better start taking the time and effort to participate in these types of discussions and getting a critical mass of people involved. Even if this route doesn't get chopped, this one case could result in greater access restrictions in the Alpine Lakes area. For those that are taking the lead, you better feed as much information to climbers as you can. I can easily see the FS screwing the climbers in order to keep ALPS happy simply beacause ALPS is better organized to put pressure on the FS.

 

It's pretty obvious that they didn't want anyone from the website there because this is being posted the day of the meeting. thumbs_down.gif

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