catbirdseat Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Perhaps I should have posted this in Newbies, but here goes. On some harder single pitch trad routes, it is sometimes difficult to get pro in to protect the first moves of a climb, or the pro you do get in might be unreliable. Do climbers ever bring along pads to protect against ground fall on roped lead climbs at cragging areas? It seems like it might be cheap insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 That's what newbies are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 dam catbirsheet. i seen it with sport climbers though mostly they use for lounging. pads are a pain to carry around. but whatever floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Or "crater poodles". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 You've seen them with sport climbers? A stick clip is a lot easier to carry than a pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Â you know what is cheaper insurance? Choosing to lead routes that are within your abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 fern is a harsh and unforgiving Mistress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerie Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 do you have any particular routes in mind that you'd want to use a pad for protection? don't the brits use full on sleeping mattresses for some of that hard grit stuff? Â i'd personally think it would take away a little of the "ambiance" of the route, so to speak. but to echo an earlier statement, whatever floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 you know what is cheaper insurance? Choosing to lead routes that are within your abilities. Fern, we're talking about trad rock climbs, not trad ice climbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 The Brits do that for routes that for the most part are extended boulder problems with terrible gear. "crux at 40' protected by bad RPs" type territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 fern is a harsh and unforgiving Mistress. Painfully honest and to the point with a dash of humor thrown in for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'm not saying I WOULD use a pad. There are some routes where you aren't quite sure what you are in for until you head up the thing. At vantage, I started up a route that was very thin at the bottom. It was supposed to have three fixed pins. It was only when I got on it that I discovered that the two lowest ones had been removed. I did, in fact, get in some small wired stoppers and finished climbing the route, but the start was a bit intimidating. Binoculars would have been nice, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Â whether the climbing is on rock or ice the ground is the same. The question was about ground falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 It'd be cool to be able to haul a pad and maybe some sort of balcony contraption up to the base of Sloe Children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatskiclimbsail Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 "Fixed" pins are rarely fixed. Just because they've been there for 10 years doesn't mean they'll be any more useful than a pad on the ground. They shouldn't be considered reliable pro. Runouts are part of trad, and I have to agree with fern here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 In other words, don't climb anything you can't free solo? There is a difference between runout and unprotected. A route can be run out and still protect you from ground fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeezix Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I agree with Fern. Also, what the heck is your belayer doing? If you've got no pro in you are not "on-belay". He/she should be spotting you. If you can't get pro in within the distance where a spotter would protect you, why do you think a crash pad would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 These pads could help... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Staying on trad routes within your ability is a great way to never improve. If you're not falling, you're not learning, and if you think you need a pad to push yourself beyond your current limits, of course you should use one. Â To anyone who thinks that if a spotter can't protect you, a pad can't either, you've been climbing in some pretty tame areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I don't think I would want to drag a pad to the base of most of the climbs I do. That said I might be a little more at ease if there was one down there sometimes. If I started out and couldn't get any pro for the lower 20 - 30 (approx a highball or two) I'd be a little sketched before I got somethin. With a few pieces in I don't have trouble with runnin out 30 feet if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Â the "if you ain't flying you ain't trying" school of thought has its merits. I presented the option of staying within your abilities as a cheaper alternative to the pad option (cheaper both in $$ and in hassle-cost) not as any judgement on how someone might choose to progress as a climber. I think most people would agree that there is not much of a lesson to be learned from taking ground falls other than "ouch". If you wish to push your limits and are willing to take whippers towards that end I submit that it might be wiser to choose routes where the moves that challenge you are higher off the ground and above good protection, rather than below the first good gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I've done it. Retro-bolted trad route I wanted to lead on gear, first piece a #2 micro at 25ft after a low percentage sloper sidepull crux, then right into a crux dyno sequence at 35ft, second piece of gear a bomber #2 camalot if you make the dyno. Trivial low 5th after the first 35ft. Opening sequence off the ground was like a 25ft V4, fish-in the micro, launch right into a five move V5 ending with an all out dyno 10-12ft above the micro. You need some slack for the dyno so a fall would put you about 8ft off the ground if the micro held and your belayer didn't shit himself. Â I don't like hauling a pad around if I'm doing roped climbing (done it twice), but I couldn't give two shits if someone deducts style points. I'd rather have my ankles and heels intact if I didn't make. I've done this on 2 routes. On the one I described above, the route went up trad...came to find out after I did it that the FA used pre-placed gear. Â Perfect style is great, being able to climb tomorrow because you knew when to do the smart thing is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketch Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I have to agree. It's cheeper, and if I do spend the money I would rather buy some new gear than a new pad. I really am partial to the end of a whipper over the end of a groundfall anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I've done it. Retro-bolted trad route I wanted to lead on gear, first piece a #2 micro at 25ft after a low percentage sloper sidepull crux, then right into a crux dyno sequence at 35ft, second piece of gear a bomber #2 camalot if you make the dyno. Trivial low 5th after the first 35ft. Opening sequence off the ground was like a 25ft V4, fish-in the micro, launch right into a five move V5 ending with an all out dyno 10-12ft above the micro. You need some slack for the dyno so a fall would put you about 8ft off the ground if the micro held and your belayer didn't shit himself. Â You sir, are a bad ass. You have my respect and admiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.