AaronB Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 What geneva convention violations did he cover up? Torturing or humilating prisoners is a violation of the geneva convention. As somebody aruging anything about a secretary of defense, you should know this. I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that issuing a news release about the abuse 3 days after it was reported was considered "covering up". One of the cool things they taught me in GED class was how to use Google. I thought I might try this newfound skill to see if Rumsfeld was involved in any type of cover-up. First of all, we know that it is a violation of the Geneva convention to humilate prisoners. Rumsfeld himself pointed this out here. Secondly, there was an internal report made by the Red Cross which indicated that there were prison abuses going on months ago. You can read about that here. Thirdly, Rumsfeld knew about the abuses but did his best to keep them quiet. In fact, Bush was upset that he didn't know about the abuse prior to seeing it on television. You can read about this here. So the question is: Did Rumsfeld cover up the abuses? I think the answer is both yes and no. By not pursuing the reports vigorously and dealing with the issue immediately through his very position as secretary of defense, he became part of the scandal. He kept the information from the public, from congress, and from the president. The question becomes whether or not this was an active cover-up or whether he just didn't think it was that big a deal. To be perfectly honest, I feel like he was probably in the latter camp. He just didn't think that the issue would come out -- he certainly didn't believe pictures would be available to the public -- so he really didn't do anything about it. Was he actively lying...? Probably not. Was what he did wrong? Absolutely. I think Rumsfeld needs to be fired and that the prison needs to be torn down. These symbolic steps -- which are non-partison steps -- would help rebuild some of the ever slipping faith that the middle east has in the united states occupation. Jason I'm sorry, I don't mean to point out that perhaps you should have spent less time using the great googling skills you got out of your GED classes and more time reading what you quoted. Again, I didn't realize that issuing a news release 3 days after it was reported was considered "covering up". What's that web of lies got to do with the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq? As far as I can tell, NOTHING. I was sticking to the topic of the thread.. Sorry I didn't go along with the drift. If I remember, it was something like D.R. being a cum sucking dirtbag or whatever. Ahh, perhaps if you'd quoted what you were referring too instead of something completely off topic we'd have followed you. You keep saying 3 days after it was reported... I think what Jason was referring to, is the fact that it was reported by the Red Cross months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraysovereign Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Do we have the text of that Press Release? I'd be interested in seeing just what it revealed, and how it was worded. Was it actually informative, or was it one those "technical formality" type of press releases that don't really say much of anything and are usually ignored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 yeah, I saw that. "declined to give details". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 January 21, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 January 21, 2004 Cool, thanks. So the 'covering-up' bit is bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 What we do know is that the International Red Cross documented abuses over a year ago and submitted their report to the Defense Dept. Nothing much was done. Defense kept the information to themselves and didn't report to the Senate Armed Services Committee, which they should have. Defense Dept. classified their investation report to keep it out of circulation - which goes against their own guidelines of only classifying information regarding national security and/or sensitive diplomacy, not to keep the information out of other sectors of our own government. They realized they had a problem, but from their standpoint it was a PR one and they just tried to keep the lid on it, which is typical for this administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 January 21, 2004 Cool, thanks. So the 'covering-up' bit is bullshit. Yes, I don't think there was a 'cover-up' in terms an attempt to hide that was happening. I mean, if CNN knows about it, it is hardly a secret anymore. However, that the matter was known in January, and Rummy didn't give it the attention that it deserved just seems like a stupid mistake. He has appologized for making this mistake, but when it comes to an office as important as his, it seems the best thing to do is step down. It doesn't look like that is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Rummy wins the elusive: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 That's funny. It also fits most of the moonbats that have been posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ya know, "Martlet", if you don't like the quality of the discourse here no one's making you stay and participate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Who stole Marylou's password? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Rummy wins the elusive: After sitting at work and reading this thread... I think Martlet is a deserving soul for such an award... The fine print in the pic says it all,dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ya know, "Martlet", if you don't like the quality of the discourse here no one's making you stay and participate.... Are you kidding me? I wouldn't ever miss a chance to prove you wrong, moonbat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGowans Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ya know, "Martlet", if you don't like the quality of the discourse here no one's making you stay and participate.... Are you kidding me? I wouldn't ever miss a chance to prove you wrong, moonbat. Aside from all the opinions flying around here regarding culpability, the fact that you have one derogatory put down that you incessantly inject into every post with gusto tells me that you’re a total dickhead. You’re probably snickering in your cube as you type the letters “m-o-o-n-b-a-t” on your keyboard. You’re sending the links to your equally conservative buddies who are also snickering and forwarding on to their inbred brethren with the subject line, “Moonbat Ahoi hee hee hee.” Meanwhile, you’ll all get together at your doublewide on the weekend and hang out around your fire pit that is nothing more than smoldering Busch Light beer cans surrounded by abandoned cheap plastic furniture that you reclaimed from the side of the highway and as you and your buddies gaze at the stars and wonder what would happen if you stuck a box of fireworks into the naked flames, you’ll heave a huge sigh of glee and remind everyone of the past week’s merriment where you called a bunch of hippy climbers “m-o-o-n-b-a-t-s”. Here’s to you Mister One Word Put Down That Nobody Thinks Is Smart. The next Busch is on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yeah, what Gowans said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 (edited) Yeah, what Gowans said! Ahhhh, Ms. haven'thadanoriginalthoughtofmyownsincenickelpissyourpantsnight, I don't drink from cans. Busch bar bottles, 9.99 at cumbys. I toss the bottles out the window of my truck for you hippies to pay your rent. If you don't think I'm smart, you must think the morons that I've repeatedly proven wrong are real dumb. Edited May 11, 2004 by Martlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 It was still a coverup. Despite that they quietly mentioned that they were investigating, nothing ever came of it and they shuffled the final findings underneath the rug. If you don't think it's a coverup, our asshole president would disagree with you! He's the one that didn't get notified and was rightfully pissed about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 meanwhile in afghanistan: http://hrw.org/reports/2004/afghanistan0304/3.htm#_Toc64778171 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4944094/ Here is a summary of an International Red Cross report on Iraqi prison abuse. I suppose the question is you belief bush & rumsfeld or the international red cross. If you believe the former, I guess you just can't be helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 http://news.amnesty.org/mav/index/ENGAMR510772004 Amnesty International said that it has documented a pattern of abuse by US agents against detainees, including in Iraq and Afghanistan, stretching back over the past two years. Despite claims this week by Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld to be "stunned" by abuses in Abu Ghraib, and that these were an "exception" and "not a pattern or practice", Amnesty International has presented consistent allegations of brutality and cruelty by US agents against detainees at the highest levels of the US Government, including the White House, the Department of Defense, and the State Department for the past two years. Last July, the organization raised allegations of torture and ill-treatment of Iraqi detainees by US and Coalition forces in a memorandum to the US Government and Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) in Iraq. The allegations included beatings, electric shocks, sleep deprivation, hooding, and prolonged forced standing and kneeling. It received no response nor any indication from the administration or the CPA that an investigation took place. Despite repeated requests, Amnesty International has been denied access to all US detention facilities. [..] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Who is Martlet? Did Necromonicon get bored again really quickly? Is there actually another whole person out there who is just that stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Who is Martlet? Did Necromonicon get bored again really quickly? Is there actually another whole person out there who is just that stupid? Necromonicon was psuedo-liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Who is Martlet? Did Necromonicon get bored again really quickly? Is there actually another whole person out there who is just that stupid? I think our Scottish friend had a nice description... you’re a total dickhead. You’re probably snickering in your cube as you type the letters “m-o-o-n-b-a-t” on your keyboard. You’re sending the links to your equally conservative buddies who are also snickering and forwarding on to their inbred brethren with the subject line, “Moonbat Ahoi hee hee hee.” Meanwhile, you’ll all get together at your doublewide on the weekend and hang out around your fire pit that is nothing more than smoldering Busch Light beer cans surrounded by abandoned cheap plastic furniture that you reclaimed from the side of the highway and as you and your buddies gaze at the stars and wonder what would happen if you stuck a box of fireworks into the naked flames, you’ll heave a huge sigh of glee and remind everyone of the past week’s merriment where you called a bunch of hippy climbers “m-o-o-n-b-a-t-s”. Here’s to you Mister One Word Put Down That Nobody Thinks Is Smart. The next Busch is on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yeah, what Gowans said! syncophant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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