fenderfour Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 So this weekend I was at 8 mile rock doing some TR'ing with some semi-climber friends and a guy asks if he can jump on Classic (we had it roped). I said sure, assuming he would put on a harness and ask for a belay, and he started free-soloing it. He obviously had the necessary skills and made it up without so much as a slip. I was not too pleased about his decision to climb unroped. I understand that he was taking his own risks, but who would have helped him if he fell? I just thought that it was a bit inconsiderate of him to put that on us. As I said before, he had the necessary skills, but everyone fucks up sometime. Some may say that I should have asked him not to climb unroped, or to ask him to leave, but it's not my rock. Everyone is entitled to equal usage. What do you think? Do you mind if a single climber does some free soloing nearby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 No. He was polite and asked to jump on the route you had a rope hanging on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 People bring food from carl's junior into work sometimes but I tell them to scram 'cause I don't want to be obligated to perform cpr. I think he's entitled to do what he likes. Providing care to him at the crag would not put you in danger (though it might mentally scar you for life I suppose). Obviously, it would be bad to rationalize soloing Rainier because there are other people around to provide care for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 He did not endanger you or put any burden of responsibility on you; I don't see the problem. Any time you climb near other climbers, roped or not, there is a possibility that someone will fall and you will probably choose to help deal with their mangled corpse or render aid or whatever, but I don't think this guy put any additional burden of responsibility on you by free soloing. Dude had da skillz to pay da billz. I free solo schtuff and I try not to climb above other people when I'm doing it (sometime hard on routes like Das Toof), but other than that, I don't think it's any different than roped climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) FF, Compare and contrast your post here to your other post on the "safety dance". In that thread you were all bothered that someone was butting in about something they didn't consider safe but you did. In this thread you seem to be taking the opposite role. It may help to think of things in a relative sense! Iain's post is perfect! Oh, and another thing. I think you are under a misconception. I believe I climbed yesterday with the antagonist in your story, and according to him he was bouldering, not free soloing. Edited April 19, 2004 by chucK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 So this weekend I was at 8 mile rock doing some TR'ing with some semi-climber friends and a guy asks if he can jump on Classic (we had it roped). I said sure, assuming he would put on a harness and ask for a belay, and he started free-soloing it. He obviously had the necessary skills and made it up without so much as a slip. I was not too pleased about his decision to climb unroped. I understand that he was taking his own risks, but who would have helped him if he fell? I just thought that it was a bit inconsiderate of him to put that on us. As I said before, he had the necessary skills, but everyone fucks up sometime. Some may say that I should have asked him not to climb unroped, or to ask him to leave, but it's not my rock. Everyone is entitled to equal usage. What do you think? Do you mind if a single climber does some free soloing nearby? Maybe you should have asked him for a pad for your vag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Politeness is the key, seemed like he was nice about it. I do hate to see someone all shaky and rattled while free soloing though, but I think that's just personal squeamishness. Sounds like that was not the case this time. I did once have some guy solo a route in Joshua Tree that I had just led and my second had already started following. I think it was kind of an obnoxious fashion there in the mid eighties. That was not polite, but it would have been churlish on my part to boot the oaf 140' to the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 Very nice all. I didn't say anything to him about his choice. He asked to climb another route that I had a rope on and I let him, knowing how he intended to climb. I agree that his actions didn't endanger any of us. But there was no way that I could walk away if he got hurt. If you will please excuse me now, I will be free soloing El Cap nekkid so that I may grow some bigger cojones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Very nice all. I didn't say anything to him about his choice. He asked to climb another route that I had a rope on and I let him, knowing how he intended to climb. I agree that his actions didn't endanger any of us. But there was no way that I could walk away if he got hurt. If you will please excuse me now, I will be free soloing El Cap nekkid so that I may grow some bigger cojones. Climbing is dangerous. If you don't want to be around danger, don't climb. Stay at home play Nintendo. 64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkyclimber Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 We were at the Smoke Bluffs last fall, in the Ronin's Corner area. Some young gun cruised up and asked about the grade on that diagonal/leaning route (not the undercling corner, but the one further left, I think. just below/right of the arete) to the left of Ronin's Corner itself. I had done it about 6-7 years before, and said "5.9ish, I think", but clearly wasn't sure. However, I didn't know he was planning on soloing it, because about 10 seconds after, he jumped on it. He was all shaky and shit thru the first 25 feet. Then he got all nervous at the crux, and whined back to us about "Is this really 5.9?". I told him, "I said , 'I think'", then we jetted out of there, not interested in picking up the pieces. When I got home, I checked the guide...5.10+, I think. Ooops. Lesson: if you are going to solo, rely on yourself for assessing difficulty! Another lesson: don't guess at grades in response to questions from climbers without a harness! Anyway, he clearly survived, because we didn;t hear any screaming from further down the trail, and saw no news of it the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_J Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I've seen it and I've done it when I was much younger. Would I do it now...nope. Does someone have the right to solo or free solo...yup. Climbing has always been about freedom and flying in the face of The Establishment. This person as far as I can read from your description was VERY polite and considerate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 Maybe I wasn't clear. He was 100% entitled to climb in any style he wanted. Verbally, he was very considerate. I just felt that climbing in this style was inconsiderate because if anything had happened, which is a lot more likely when climbing unroped, we would have to help him. One more thing - this was my first time around anyone who was climbing unroped. The whole thing was probably just an overreaction on my part. Thanks for your input. It has made me realize how much of a pussy I really am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess watching Yabo was terrifying because he was often sketchy on his hard solos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 FF, It is all relative. You probably would not be freaked out if someone climbed a 30 foot high ladder over a concrete floor. The danger to the soloist was probably (hopefully!) about the same magnitude. That said. Soloists should realize that often their feats do make people uncomfortable, and thus soloing around them is intruding on their space. Of course, with some people it makes them uncomfortable if you don't belay with the biner through the belay loop. Should you conform to their belay specs in order to be polite? It's a tough question, and a good discussion topic. Am I being inconsiderate when I ride my bike (solo) in the street? If I get thrown over the handlebars for whatever reason and smash my (hlemeted) head, I'll be depending on others to scoop me up and bring me to the hospital. Is that being inconsiderate? Are bikers riding helmetless being inconsiderate to everyone they ride by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess watching Yabo was terrifying because he was often sketchy on his hard solos. Exactly who I was thinking of. I actually had to bury my face in my hands once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 ??Yabo?? I didn't get his name. He was a tall guy with a shaved head, glasses, Australian accent, said he lived near Mt Rainier. Really nice guy and it was cool to watch how carefully he moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 My day would seriously become less fun if I had some dude splatter into several disgusting pieces right next to me. Yeah, I think the guy is definitely involving you in any potential accident. How would you feel looking into the dude's eyes as he struggled to keep his internal organs internal? Think about it. That would f#@king suck and I really would rather not have someone burden me or anyone in my company with that possibility. That being said, if the climber is on a ridiculously easy route and looks bomber, I wouldn't be too worried. If he was asking me permission in any way I would want to know if he had done the climb before. If he hadn't, I would politely offer to give him a belay, otherwise f*ck off and solo somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess watching Yabo was terrifying because he was often sketchy on his hard solos. Exactly who I was thinking of. I actually had to bury my face in my hands once. The tree story is one of the funniest pieces ever written Love to hear your story sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 gotta disagree...its none of your biz, and if your rope was hanging there for awhile, you're being a route hog... You don't like him soloing around you, then YOU leave... I'll agree that i feel squeamish watching someone else soloing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 ??Yabo?? I didn't get his name. He was a tall guy with a shaved head, glasses, Australian accent, said he lived near Mt Rainier. Really nice guy and it was cool to watch how carefully he moved. Baaa haa hah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) Given that free-soloing is pretty much the ultimate in self-centered climbing I don't find it at all surprising that free-soloists don't give a single thought to how their potential jibbing of themselves may affect others. And no, I will not leave, I was there first!! I'll just wait until they are several feet off the ground, then begin a conversation-- are they an organ donor, do they have any bloodborne pathogens I should be aware of, which dismembered body part do they want me to try to find first, can I have their stuff when they die, etc. etc. Because really, isn't my relentless banter just an aspect of my climbing style and the way I like to climb? My choice, right? Not affecting anyone... Edited April 19, 2004 by ashw_justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 That being said, if the climber is on a ridiculously easy route and looks bomber, I wouldn't be too worried. If he was asking me permission in any way I would want to know if he had done the climb before. If he hadn't, I would politely offer to give him a belay, otherwise f*ck off and solo somewhere else. "Ridiculously easy" is relative. If Peter Croft walked up and was so exceedingly polite that he asked if he could solo Karate Crack while you climbed Right Slab Crack with a rope, would you really tell him to fuck off? I don't think you're in any position to judge what a soloist should be doing when it doesn't affect you. By your logic, I should be able to tell you to fuck off and go climb somewhere else if I think you look sketchy on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Gimme a break...most people go climbing to just get away from it...no rules, you set the level of risk, etc. Who are you to tell someone not to solo something...suppose he tied into the rope and stuck only ONE piece in? you gonna start yelling at him to put in a piece every 3 feet so YOU are comfortable? Whatdafuck??? Who are you to tell him/her what he/she should be doing at the cliff???????? Stay at rei or the gym... If you don't want to pick up the pieces then don't...and if you can't not pick them up, then leave...its none of your biz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) Ashhole_justin, Free-soloing is the ultimate form of climbing. Period. If you don't want to do it, fine, but you will never know the depth of focus and transcendent level of awareness that comes from relying on your mind and body to briefly overcome gravity. "It's like having sex with death". dumbass said: I'll just wait until they are several feet off the ground, then begin a conversation-- are they an organ donor, do they have any bloodborne pathogens I should be aware of, which dismembered body part do they want me to try to find first, can I have their stuff when they die, etc. etc. Because really, isn't my relentless banter just an aspect of my climbing style and the way I like to climb? My choice, right? Not affecting anyone... As for your threats against free-soloists; you are an immature fuck and if you ever do that shit to me I'll climb back down and wallop you with a big hex. You suck, "go gargle butt-gravy asseyes". Hey FF, "Yabo" = John Yablonski. 1970s era Yosemite climber who once fell from the top of "short circuit (12a)" and was saved by getting his shirt caught on a tree which bent down and deposited him gently and safely on the ground. He is also the person who, late one night while tripping "saw" midnight lightning (famous boulder problem in Camp 4) and woke up John Bachar and someone else and made them send it for him. Edited April 19, 2004 by Alpinfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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