real trad ratings

[cracked]

Real chestbeating grades.

[EWolfe]

Bob. Always good for a

 

Roped climbing is aid

[Peter_Puget]

Tex - You ignore the fact that in sport climbing the bolts are in fixed locations giving a climber two choices: either clip or run it out. Consider a climb like Tales of Power. It is well protected and the pro is easily placed. Since a person leading ToP has an almost infinite number of choices as to protection location, the route can be approached with more flexibility and thus there is a greater chance of maximizing his/her strengths while climbing it.

 

Now BOB - Just what routes did you TR?

 

PP

[TimL]

Climbing is a sport of self satisfaction. I understand Bobs concern, but its just friggin rock climbing, not the cure for cancer.

 

What i do have to say is that crack climbing and sport climbing are to seperate genres of climbing. Roughly, you can compare them, but they are much different styles. Same with sport and slab climbing. Same with ice and mixed..... The grades should roughly correspond with the understanding in the differences in climbing.

 

The biggest thing is to use each genre to cross train for the other. For example, I find hard sport moves fairly close to hard trad moves. Steep juggy sport climbs gain strength for thugish cracks..... see it however you like but use it to tain to climb harder.

 

Bob - What 5.12s and 5.13s did you TR at Index and Squamish?

[Dru]

hey bob what 13a crack did you TR at Squamish? There's only like 5 or 6 of them so it shouldn't be all that hard for you to pick one to ^^^claim^^^ you did

[cracked]

Where is the GPS trail?

[Peter_Puget]

I wont go back and look but I dont think Bob ever said he TR'd a .13 crack recently at Squamish. Anyway I just want to know his specific opinions about specific routes.

[eric8]

Bob is not god, and bob needs to quit worrying about other climbers and what they think is hard or not...Ranting about some hosers on a route like pleasant pheasant is pointless...who really cares? If they were havin' a good time, fine, if they weren't, that's fine too (and should provide a good opportunity to enjoy the show, covertly, of course )...no reason to stress over it, people think and do what they want...just go climbing...

 

 

Distel it wouldn't suprise me if you could lead a 5.10 crack if you can onsight 5.11+ sport. I know someone who lead a 5.10 crack as his 5th trade climb and hadn't followed that many either.

[Dru]

I wont go back and look but I dont think Bob ever said he TR'd a .13 crack recently at Squamish. Anyway I just want to know his specific opinions about specific routes.

 

anyways the cruxs on these supposed 12s and 13s are all like v3-v5 so none of them can be hard

[glassgowkiss]

don't u fuckers ever work? dru, where in the hell did i say i tr'd 13 in squish? to be specific the routes i was reffering to were daily planet and sentry box, which i would have hard time calling 12a. as the matter of fact both these riggs on tr feel more like mid 11's. there are some routes that go the other way, like astronomy.in any case, the point of my rant was: a 5.11 is 5.11, 12 is 12 13 is 13 sport or trad. basically grades are based on how much effort is used to climb to the anchor without falling/ hanging on gear/ other puff trickery. the difference might be in the type of terrain these routes cover (hence sportos have hard time climbing a crack at first and vice versa tradster crimping nobbins at smith). placing pro is calculated into these climbs, so if they did get bolted they would most likely drop a few letter grades in their rating.

the other reason i did write this is because i am getting fed up with horseturd at the crags, it's like a bad weed and spreading. fuckers all over the place and no place to hide from them.

ps. hey dru- you are a nice guy and know A LOT about climbing in this area. but on the other hand you talk a lot of shit like you did these routes. i think there is a big differance between knowing them and doing them....that's all.

Edited April 20, 2004 by glassgowkiss

[Dru]

of course i'm talking shit this is a website - duh. just like you. i bet it isnt the first time in your life ewe've ever encountered a soft 12 either is it

[Gripped]

I lead Classic Crack the two weeks ago, then I went up to to exit 38 and did some 10a sport climbing. Man, Classic Crack was harder ... so clearly Trad is WAAAAY harder than sport.

[Peter_Puget]

So what about Index BOB? By the way both Sentry Box and Daily Planet were originally rated .11.

[RuMR]

i thought that 12a thing just to the side of daily planet was pretty much on for 12a!! what's it called??? starts off the same ledges as daily planet...sorta grungy at the bottom and then cleans up, and steepens up...not very long???

[sexual_chocolate]

this is kinda funny:

 

Rainy Day Women is suppose to be 12a sport, but when I lead it with gear, it felt like 11b.

 

What gives?

 

Maybe trad is really easier than sport. Go figure.

[MrDoolittle]

Bob said:

 

Sizzlechest

fuckers

horseturd

weak-ass punter

learn to read

shut the fuck up

team wank

bad weed

[glassgowkiss]

i like index. keeps u honest. again and again. the point wasn't that squish ratings are rather on soft side. the point was that a 10c ckack/trad route is not harder then let's say 11 sport. if you get on tr on these things the rating drops. and it's not so much the case with bolted routes, where the lead vs tr is not as noticable. and i know that it is a general statement and you can find many different situations. ok back to work- i am finished bitching.

[assmonkey]

Just last night I got pissed off because my buddy was pulling harder crimpy boulder problems at SG than I was, so I nonchalantly did a couple laps on the fist crack in the back room there, knowing my buddy would think he could walk all over me there, too. He couldn't get off the ground because he doesn't know how to fist jam. So I while he struggled, then I told him it was a 5.6 crack. Now I feel guilty that I fed my ego at his expense and I am . Assmonkey is so suck.

 

- a s s m * n k e y

[whirlwind]

nah sportos and boul;ders tend to rub in the ratings more than crack climbers, gotta get em back when we can

[MrDoolittle]

I agree with ass-go-kiss. Climbing a trad route is just as hard/easy as climbing a sport route, as far as the climbing is concerned. Of course, the challenge of protecting a trad route is absent from sport climbs. You can also make a trad route HARDER though, by stuffing gear into your hand jams, for instance. You can't really do this climbing sport. I haven't clipped bolts much, but sometimes I find it to be more MENTALLY challenging. No matter how hard the climbing is, or what the run-out is, you have to make it to the next bolt. And if it looks sketch, you can't stuff in a nest of stoppers and go for it, or sew it up, or hang on gear, you've got to climb.

 

So...

Technically: Trad = Sport

Pro. Challenge: Trad > Sport

Balls:

Danger: Trad > Sport

Learning Curve: Trad > Sport

 

God has spoken. End transmission.

[Distel32]

yeah but in sport you can skip holds, that would be the equivalent of putting gear in your hand jams....? Just making it harder on yourself.

[MrDoolittle]

Skipping holds deliberately(extra challenge) is different from accidently skipping holds(poor style), though. Feel free to skip all of the holds you want.

On an aside, when and where you place gear on a trad climb can also effect the difficulty. For instance, a finger crack that rises and traverses is super-hard to protect and climb if you place gear IN FRONT of you. You end up filling the best finger jams with gear. You also increase your exposure to a longer fall while clipping. But if you place the gear BEHIND you, you're all set. This is counter-intuitive to some trad leaders, and seems more ballsy because the next moves aren't "protected". ie. you're not on TR for the next few moves, you're on lead the whole time. The same can be said for a steep hand crack. It's a lot easier to place gear at your waist and it makes your clips easier, but, again, you don't get the "TR Effect" of placing your gear above you.

[Distel32]

In your first post it makes it sound a lot more like you were saying to place gear in your james deliberately, thats how I read it at least.

[whirlwind]

yeah but in sport you can skip holds, that would be the equivalent of putting gear in your hand jams....? Just making it harder on yourself.

not really cause often if u put gear in where ur hold should be its cause there was no onther place to put gear, so the only option is to place it or run it out.

btw there are plently of trad route where u can't put gear any where u want specally if u climb wider cracks

[RuMR]

this whole thing is a DUMB argument...sheesh, 5.11 cracks are 5.11, 5.12 cracks are 5.12, 5.11 sport routes are 5.11, 5.12 sport routes are 5.12, etc....different techniques ae all the difference...either you know how or you don't...simple as that...

and exit 38 and 32 are incredibly overrated under 5.12 so don't use that as a baseline for comparison...try rifle, or smith, or areas back east...or ceuse, or arco, or buoux, or the frankenjura...

 

Edited April 21, 2004 by RuMR