Info on the physics lab they want to put in Icicle

[marylou]

Info on this project

[catbirdseat]

See also this related thread.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Maybe they will pull the plug halfway through like they did to the atom smasher in Texas. This would be a masive project with lots of truck trafic.

[Ade]

The SSC was going to cost $11 Bn, compared to $300m for NUSEL. In the grand scheme of "big science" this isn't really that big.

 

Seems to me the potential revenue boost for the area is minimal 60 construction jobs maybe the same again in staff after completion. And in return they put 1100 cars per day on the road (after construction) and generally mess by the Icicle.

 

Methinks the site in S Dakota would be a lot more sensible.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Being inside solid rock is a definate advantage for a physics lab. Leavenworth, and the souranding area is probably the most solid place in Washington, acre to acre. Index might be a good canidate, but the weather is so shotty there it could interfer with certain particle detectors.

This large area of solid rock might help in gravitational experiments.

The Black Hills in SD would be good also. Dry climate, solid rock.

[EWolfe]

Here's the map of the proposed location:

 

[chris]

Are the twin tracks on the map representative of the construction?

In regards to the traffic, couldn't some sort of mandatory shuttle service be used from Leaveworth?

And how does a staff of 60 people after construction add 1100 cars a day to the road?

[cj001f]

And how does a staff of 60 people after construction add 1100 cars a day to the road?

Because the lab hasn't mastered the vaporisation ray yet, so the stuff they remove from the tunnel has to go somewhere.

[catbirdseat]

Are the twin tracks on the map representative of the construction?

In regards to the traffic, couldn't some sort of mandatory shuttle service be used from Leaveworth?

And how does a staff of 60 people after construction add 1100 cars a day to the road?

There will be two tunnels for safety reasons so that if some accident were to occur in one, the other would be available for escape. The 1100 cars figure was made up by somebody. Even during construction, there will never be that many truck trips in a day.

[hopalong]

How reasuring

[AlpineK]

I remember when they were logging after the fires in the Icicle. They had the whole place shut down. I can see them doing the same or worse while there building this tunnel. After it's done there bound to put up a bunch of security fences and have roving security pigs fucking with climbers.

 

[cman]

PUBLIC MEETING

 

Friday, July 9, 2004 -- 7pm

Icicle River Middle School

 

"Protecting Amenities is a New 'Hot' Strategy for Local Development."

 

 

by Gundars Rudzitis, PhD

 

Gundars will present a 1/2-hour talk, followed by a question / answer session. This should be an interesting and informative evening discussing quality-of-life and culturally place-based development... why protection of the environment is linked to long-term stability and growth of our local economy... why maintaining a high quality environment can be a development strategy.

 

 

anyone go to this? not a lot of new info happening but it appears the DUSEL proposal is still being considered.

[TBay]

why doesnt UW perform their research in an abandoned mine?

 

A friend who works for the Bureau of Abandoned Mine Reclamation (covering Utah and Nevada) told me that collegiate research (everything from astrophysics to biology to geosciences) has been performed and is currently being performed in abandoned mines at various location throughtout the Great Basin region.

[catbirdseat]

They had a facility in the Homestake Mine in North Dakota. The company plans to abandon the mine and flood it destroying millions of dollars in improvements. That is why they are looking for a new home for the laboratory.

[Szyjakowski]

the homestake mine is long underwater....

hence the interest in the icicle.

those dumbass uw professors need to listen to the people and realize they are being dumbasses.

[catbirdseat]

Ben you should take the time to read up on the subject as I have and you will see some of the problems they are facing. Basically, if we don't get this lab built, many of our best and brightest scientists will leave the country so they can continue their work. Canada is already ahead of the US because of their Sudbury facility.

[Greg_W]

Gee, CBS, whatever will we do? This sounds like irrational panic-speak, if I've ever heard it. I'm sure there are other sites; ones not in a wilderness. Continue what work? Is it so critical to National Security that we must accept destroying that valley and the access and the beauty, etc.? Besides, if researchers from UW go to Canada to do their research, they will still return to UW to complete their work, write-ups, and publication, just by nature of their grants.

[Squid]

There are other US locations in competition for hosting this facility- in fact every other location has a substantial mine already constructed.

 

The neutrino research is interesting, if you're interested in neutrinos. Me, not so much. I'm interested in the Icicle valley- that's where I get my rocks off. If a bunch of geeks in lab coats wants to prevent me from getting my rocks off, fuck 'em.

The worst part of this argument is when my lab-coated geeky friends look shocked when I let 'em know I'm opposed to DUSEL. They all make faces as if I've said something sacrilegious ("Hey guys, Christ was aiding on those nails. If he was really the son of God he could've freed that cross.")

They protest- "But we need neutrino research! You're standing in the way of progress. Who knows where this could lead?"

Screw research, screw progress. If it doesn't let me spend more time in the mountains, and if it doesn't keep the mountains pristine, then I don't want it.

 

I don't have to accept your definition of 'progress': cell phones, video games, monster trucks, frozen burritos, instant messaging, wireless networking- none of this shit makes my life richer, and I'd happily sacrifice it all for a single Icicle Valley.

 

Let Canada take all of our best and our brightest, just leave the Icicle Valley alone.

 

Squid has spoken.

[Greg_W]

"Who knows where this could lead?"

 

Do the scientists even know where this could lead? Do they have any idea as to what benefits this research will reap or are they just using grant money to reinvent velcro?

[catbirdseat]

No use for technology ay? No one ever tells their doctor to spare the technology when it comes to saving their lives. People are funny that way.

 

"We don't need no edukayshun. We don't need no thot kontrol..."

[Squid]

I just don't think that primary research is the altar on which all other aspects of our lives should be sacrificed.

 

Does the Icicle add meaning to your life? I can think of at least one TR you've posted from there.

 

Will neutrino research make life more meaningful for you?

[catbirdseat]

Yes and Yes. The impact of DUSEL on the Icicle has been vasty exaggerated, in my opinion. I believe climbers can continue to have a quality experience there even if DUSEL is built.

[Squid]

That's a pretty optimistic viewpoint.

 

What some physics profs at the UW consider a 'significant impact' may well differ from MY definition of a significant impact.

 

Still, other sites are being proposed, none of which are in a designated wilderness area, and most of which have pre-existing mines. I've yet to hear a convincing argument why Cashmere is a compelling choice among the US sites.

[Mal_Con]

Kind of reminds me of the much dreaded "mineshaft gap" in Dr. Strangelove

[Greg_W]

Catbirdseat, what are you willing to sacrifice in the way of access? What sort of construction traffic are we talking about here on a less than optimum road? First off, I'm sure that road will have to be rebuilt to handle the traffic of loaded T & T's full of rock as they excavate. Further, what about environmental (including noise) impacts to the area? Diesel clouds from aforementioned trucks? And on and on. Believe me, us construction workers make a big fucking mess every chance we get.