rbw1966 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I was reminded while watching Touching the Void of something I saw a lot while ice climbing in the Slovak Tatras: a number of climbers who weren't using leashes, per se, but using tether cords from their tools to their harness. That is, they had cord running from the spike at the base of the shaft to their harness. In some cases I saw climbers using both leashes and these tethers (we called them dummy cors in the Army). Any thoughts on the pros/cons of this practice? Pro: Drop a tool in the alpine and you may be seriously fucked without a backup. No hands rest by hanging from your tools by your harness. Con: Cord can get tangled; another thing to get your crampons hooked on. I've only seen one guy using these dummy cords in the NW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_arrow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 That's it - you hit on the pros and cons. Instant anchor in the right conditions - add a screw and it is super solid. Major drawback on meandering routes - those tethers are always in the way, stepping on them etc. Overall I think they worked well with old style tools and lockdown leashes on moderate terrain - not such a good idea on more modern routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Saw some pics from that mind-numbingly long alpine ice route Mic Fowler and bro put up in China last year. Those dudes had standard leashes, but also a cord with a skyhook on the end they could hook onto their tools for an instant anchor. Seemed like a good idea, you could tuck it out of the way unlike a dummy cord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Sort of like a fifi hook for ice climbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Sort of like a fifi hook for ice climbing? exactly like a fifi hook. on the end of some 1/2 inch tubular with bungie stuffed in it. it is an old skool trick that is kina gay. just more shit if you asked me. if you need to hang it aint no big thang to throw the rope over the tool head and call for t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I could see it being useful for LONG ice routes in the greater ranges at belays or when you just need to stop and fuck with stuff, not so much for when you need to rest on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I could see it being useful for LONG ice routes in the greater ranges at belays or when you just need to stop and fuck with stuff, not so much for when you need to rest on lead. but then a biner is better than a lousy hook. i have been iceclimbing with a daisy and it works pretty well for what you describe. and then i have a biner which i can use for other stuff. i am not crazy about fifi hooks. i mean --really-- something named after a poodle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 When I first started ice climbing, leading with snargs, we used a fifi hook on a tether attached to our harness to hook onto our leashes on vertical pitches. You pretty much needed two free hands to get the snargs started, one to hold it and the other to smack it. The follower did it too, as they are harder to get out than in. Way too much energy wasted if you didn't do it. Yeah it was "aid" but whatever....ice climbing is aid anyway! I tried umbilical cords once but it was too much of a cluster fuck. Like trying to get a shoulder length runner off from around your neck! More cons than pros imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaee Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Picked up set of these but they feel so weird I haven't tried them out yet. A good idea, though, especially for clipper leashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 that's grivel's "double spring". i use leashless tools and although i have yet to drop one, i use the double spring when doing multi-pitch routes - just in case. (it would suck to be up there with just one tool!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Umbi's were good while placing Snargs or the old Chouinard screws, as Mr. Parker mentioned, it was nice to be connected to a tool while you're sweating in gear. I still often use an umbilical of 9/16" webbing with bungie cord inside on one tool on long routes. It's nice to know you can't lose the tool even when you place it in some mank and are fiddling in gear. The bungie helps keep the tether from catching too bad. On pure ice it's even kinda comfy to be connected to a well-placed tool when twisting a screw in. (Like ice climbing is supposed to be comfortable!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 UMBILICALS ARE AID...no hands rests...style police will kill you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 As I have no style, I am not in their jurisdiction! I've actually hung on the umbi maybe twice. Now the rope on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daler Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Come on. Leashless is the rage!!! everybody is doing it. Think about it, You are holding onto jugs the whole time and Ice rarely goes beyond vertical. This means it can never get harder then 5.9! right? Go leashless and you will never go back!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammut_rep Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I once had to help haul a guy out from a climb who came off from about 20-25 feet while setting his first screw. He had placed one tool and clipped into the spike from his harness and hung from it. He then tossed the rope over the head of the other tool and yelled "take." Once his hands were free, he started to place his first screw. The mistake that I think he made was that instinctively, he pushed out slightly from the ice to give himself some room to place his first screw (which I've witnessed everyone do while trying to place screws this way). This changed the angle of the pull on the tool that he clipped into and it ripped. All of his weight went to the other tool that had the rope over the head. The downward force on the head shifted the angle of which it was placed into the ice and it also popped sending him to the ground. Fortuntately, because of the position his body was in and that he wasn't "too far" off the ground, he landed feet first. The fall did dislocate his ankle and the force of the impact blew off his inside and outside ankle bones on one leg. He also compressed his spine which forced us to immobilize him before we could get him out of there. I think clipping into and hanging from your tools is a bad idea because it is really easy to make a mistake if you don't pay attention to what you are doing. I used to clip into my tools back when I started ice climbing, but stopped because I just didn't like having all of the additional crap (slings, tethers, etc.) hanging in the way. I've also heard of other accidents or falls that were caused by hanging from your tools. I agree with Dale, go leashless. Then you can't hang... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_arrow Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 daler - except that the jug is the same the whole way - ie. with poor form and overgripping you get pumped pretty fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 daler - except that the jug is the same the whole way - ie. with poor form and overgripping you get pumped pretty fast not true! you can change the jug any time you want by changing how you use the tool. i usually hold mine the same way, but sometimes i will hold one further up on the shaft ... and sometimes i will pull up on one by grabbing the head. the ergo-type tools give you even more choices. you learn not to overgrip pretty quick and it's super easy to get a quick shake out when you don't have your tool attached to your wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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