freeclimb9 Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 National Public Radio's "Living on Earth" show ran a piece this week on Rock Climbing Wrongs: http://www.loe.org/ETS/organizations.php3?orgid=33&action=printNewestContentItem&typeID=3&templateID=18&User_Session=360453e7e64199bb100187d02f5ea555#feature7 I was shocked, though I've perpetrated scores of first ascents, that some climbers would incinerate plant material in order to get higher. Seriously, I thought it sucked that the radio show gave voice to someone crying foul on climbers and suggesting we avoid first ascents, but did not give the parameters under which her research (and subsequent suggested climber guidelines) was conducted. Nor was the amount of affected rock given. Just what percent of the total area of the Niagara Escparment's cliffs have established climbs? I'm guessing a low percentage. The researcher looked at cliffs near Ontario on the Niagara Escarpment, and her webpage is here: http://www.uoguelph.ca/botany/cerg/michele.htm It sucks when climbers are portrayed as something other than stewards of our resources. Quote
klenke Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 This study has been completed. [ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote
dr._jay Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 the escarpment is pretty much a large bouldering area with routes spread out over a large wooded area. its a multi-use area with hiking trails and picnic tables and it runs right along the niagara river. they closed the bigger walls to roped climbing probably at least 10 years ago due to some accidents but then it was rediscovered as a bouldering spot so i can imagine there are many areas in the woods that get trampled and rocks getting cleaned in the attempt to find new lines. here's a online guide if anyone is interested:http://vantek-corp.com/glen Quote
DOUG_LARSON Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 quote: Originally posted by klenke: Last line of Michelle's commentary on her website:"...we just want to see a healthy relationship between climbers and natural cliff communities."Hmmmm. I now see the real reason why climbers fall off cliffs and die. It's not because the climbers made boneheaded decisions or got unlucky by falling rock. No, it's the little snails. These snails are killers. They send climbers to their death. They're just getting even for all that habitat the climbers are killing. Perhaps some of the snails are suicide snails. This has got to stop. Can't we all just get along? Can't we once again have a heathly relationship? Can't man and snail again live in peace? Hi Klenke, I had thought that I had made some progress at convincing you that logic and reason ought to replace hyperbole and acrimony. Obviously not. The level of sarcasm in your post is astonishing. The land snails include some very rare species. What gives you the right to decide that your life and enjoyment of physical activity is more important than theirs? I urge you to re-think your position. I am happy to re-think mine - tell me what's wrong with it - only tell me without sarcasm. doug larson Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 doug, i think that i laid out klenke's ideas with my post in the other thread about science and christianity...and believe it or not i am serious about that...... and is it not only counter productive to say after the fact, "hey guys you are wrong, we are right...." what is done is done and dwelling on hindsite only makes your ass look bigger.......cus thats whats behind you...time to look for better ways to save the world..and cliff side ecology is such a small part of the converable world that i would say it is another lost art...just like chivilry and non competitive sports.... seriously though your battle trying to save the cliff side ecology will only make you enemies..... to try and alter north american culture and resource abuse/damage/use is not just an uphill battle it is impossible... i dunno more thoughts Quote
Craftmatic Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 quote: Originally posted by DOUG LARSON: Hi Klenke, I had thought that I had made some progress at convincing you that logic and reason ought to replace hyperbole and acrimony. Obviously not. The level of sarcasm in your post is astonishing. The land snails include some very rare species. What gives you the right to decide that your life and enjoyment of physical activity is more important than theirs? I urge you to re-think your position. I am happy to re-think mine - tell me what's wrong with it - only tell me without sarcasm. doug larson Why is my right to life and enjoyment more important than theirs? No reason at all. A snail's personal enjoyment and self fulfillment is every bit as important as mine, or any humans for that matter. I am sure that they are capable of these things and that we are not imbuing them with sensibilities and capacities that they do not have. In fact, I don't think we go far enough in imagining their subjective realities. I believe that they are fully capable of appreciating verbal nuances such as irony and sarcasm. What else would distinguish them from their hippie proponents. In reality, I am for preserving a variety of life on the planet. I am not for promoting outlandish sentimentality. Quote
verve Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 To Dr. Jay The Niagara Escarpment is a 725 km long band of limestone cliffs. There are at least 10 seperate climbing areas (including Lion's Head - which may be the best limestone climbing in N.A.) besides the bouldering area you mentioned. You only made reference to the "Niagara Glen". Quote
erik Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 quote: Originally posted by verve: To Dr. Jay725 km . ENOUGH WITH ALL THE HIGH TECH SCIENCE TALK, WHA DOES THIS MEAN...??? Quote
AlpineK Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 While you may be right in your study Doug, what you are going to achieve by pushing this line of thinking is alienating a constituency that is more likely to be pro eco than the rest of the population. I suggest that you guys rethink your priorities. As far as I'm concerned global warming is head and shoulders above cliff habitat when it comes to problems we need to deal with. What we need is for people to work together on the really big problem before we start fighting over little things. In short your helping George W and his buddies divide and conquer. All I can say is I'm going to be pissed if I can't ski. I'll probably turn to crime, and the first house I'm going to rob will be Fairweathers. Quote
dr._jay Posted April 10, 2002 Posted April 10, 2002 yes verve, i stand corrected. the glen is only the tip of the escarpment, and personally i think it gets much better up north. mt. nemo, rattlesnake, and buffalo point all kick ass and lion's head, which as you say is as good as it gets. and erik, to translate 725 km. is equal to alot of goddamn rocks to climb. Quote
klenke Posted April 11, 2002 Posted April 11, 2002 This study has been completed. [ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: klenke ] Quote
Fairweather Posted April 11, 2002 Posted April 11, 2002 NPR= taxpayer funded left wing garbage. I only listen to NPR when I'm having difficulty getting to sleep. I see some of their correspondents have gone over to FOX. (Juan Williams, Maura Liasson) I guess they saw the error of their ways. Their reporting is usually accurate, but never tells both sides of a story....just the side they think you should hear. [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ] [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ] Quote
DOUG_LARSON Posted April 11, 2002 Posted April 11, 2002 I don't want to sound like a motivational speaker, but "only the impossible is impossible". Our species is built for survival and if there is a trend to try to globally protect that which keeps us alive and healthy, I believe that that trend will eventually surface. I may not be part of the subspecies that achieves this success, but I'm trying. doug Quote
DOUG_LARSON Posted April 11, 2002 Posted April 11, 2002 Nope. But even if I were, he'd probably deny it. doug larson Quote
Matt Posted April 11, 2002 Posted April 11, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: NPR= taxpayer funded left wing garbage. I only listen to NPR when I'm having difficulty getting to sleep. I see some of their correspondents have gone over to FOX. (Juan Williams, Maura Liasson) I guess they saw the error of their ways.Their reporting is usually accurate, but never tells both sides of a story....just the side they think you should hear. [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ] [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ] Have you ever listened to VOA or AFRTS? Do you think maybe there is a balance here? Quote
imorris Posted April 12, 2002 Posted April 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: (clip)...correspondents have gone over to FOX. (Juan Williams, Maura Liasson) I guess they saw the error of their ways. (clip) FOX is quite simply the worst news source on the face of the earth. Comparing them to NPR is totally ridiculous. Quote
Greg_W Posted April 12, 2002 Posted April 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by imorris: FOX is quite simply the worst news source on the face of the earth. Comparing them to NPR is totally ridiculous. FOXNEWS has been beating CNN in the ratings lately, though. Quote
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