Exit 38 Closure

[wrench]

Has anyone seen the article in the SEattle PI today about closing (among others) Olallie state park (aka Exit 38)? [http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/61747_parks11.shtml] I have a hard time seeing such a closure be a major issue for climbers as a)those big yellow gates are pretty easy to walk around and b)most climbers are pretty adept at shitting in the woods. But on the other hand, I don't know the extent of what closing the park means. There's a public meeting on the topic tomorrow if anyone feels compelled to represent the climbing community (check article for details).

Does anyone know any more about this? i.e. what the impact of closing would be? Is there serious cause for concern? Or will climbing there resume regardless of open or close, and it will just be less accessible which might actually cut down on crowds and horses and so be a good thing?

[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: wrench ]

[Lambone]

The firm that my Fiance works for is in the proscess of a major environmental impact statement for a proposed gravel mine near Exit 38. This may have something to do with that...but I'm not sure.

[erik]

if that is the case that is certainly too bad....a decent climbing resource sold down the creek for a new and improved sea-tac runway.....

dont quote me (sure no one ever does ) i dont remember the name of the company that is going to do the strip minning off the hillside....but havent they had a few disasters in the past??

though i think exit 38 is technically part of the iron horse state park, managed by the lake easton park dudes.....

wa state has a funny way of having not so close parks manage other low maintance parks...

[wrench]

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

though i think exit 38 is technically part of the iron horse state park, managed by the lake easton park dudes.....

wa state has a funny way of having not so close parks manage other low maintance parks...

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Yeah, the iron horse trail IS the iron horse state park, but the non-railroad grade part of the area is olallie. Based on that, doesn't seem like the actual crags would be affected, but access (ie approach through olallie) might be affected.

[jon]

Can anyone fill me in on what happened to our state surplus. Was it used for greens fees? Invested in Enron? I heard King County won't be having the heritage festival this year at Marymoore, that was always fun. With more and more people wreckreating I find it hard to believe that they are closing down parks.

Are sport climbers going to have to wear camouflage spandex to climb at 38 now?

[DCramer]

I think I have seen this list before a few years ago - last time this threat arose. If anyone feels like a park on this list should stay open they should NOT be shy in advocating for their position. Asking for clarification as to what "closure" really means is also important. If there are shades of gray we should use them to preserve access.

I believe that the Town Walls are managed through the Wallace Falls State Park. Although I cannot see how access to the Town Walls can seriously be threatened, I will make a call and report back any information I collect. Any volunteers willign to do the same for 38?

[allison]

Jon, remember I-695? State surplus all gone now! People with expensive cars have the money now, as it should be....

[jon]

quote:

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Originally posted by allison:

Jon, remember I-695? State surplus all gone now!

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That's right allison, mr tim eyman fraternity watch salesman money stealing peter puffer screwed everyone. And the funniest shit is car tabs aren't even $30.

I'll look into the exit 38 deal a little bit.

[Bug]

When it was my business to advise candidates, there was a very common understanding. Sway the people who vote. Don't give a rip about those who don't. According King County Cross Tabulated Voter Analysis, 76% of all registered voters who actually voted in 2 or more of the last 4 elections were 45 or older. Drop the age down to 35 and you have 87%. Drop it to 25 and you have 99%.

Now why do you suppose our voting populace tends to favor conservative, "give me mine now" kinds of ballot measures? Because they're all gonna be dead by the time we really pay the MAN.

VOTE damn it!

[AJ]

Lambone, I believe the gravel pit being proposed is on the north side of I-90. It has been on and off again for 15 years. Ask anyone in North Bend about it - they are bound to have an opinion one way or another.

The issue with Olallie is that the state is short of money in this funding cycle. The funding issue also affects other state run outdoor agencies like DNR who are considering closing a number of boat-only access camping areas throughout the San Juan Islands.

[Gordonb]

Also closure doesn't mean locking people out. It usually means that maintenance is not done and some garbage and bathrooms are closed/removed. Sometimes parking is gated off, but it shouldn't severly impact the ability to climb.

[DCramer]

Sorry I am pressed for time right now but here is My report:

I called Wenberg State Park and asked how access might be affected. The response: The situation is currently unclear but since the parks provides essentially no services at the Town Walls access to the Town Walls probably will not be affected.

On a pragmatic note enforcement would be nearly impossible.

Here is a link to the Parks Dept. site. Specifically the page on which they discuss closures. Access has the potential of being an issue at some locations! At the bottom are suggestions for how to provide feedback.

http://www.parks.wa.gov/budgetcuts.asp

Here is a link showing how to find your state reps. Be sure to give them feedback too!

http://dfind.leg.wa.gov/dfinder.cfm

[northfork]

Here is some beta on the proposed (Grouse Ridge)gravel mine to be situated between Exit 34 and 38.

More information consult the Cascade Gateway Foundation http://www.cascadegateway.org

Some Facts:

Weyerhaeuser and Cadman Inc. are planning to build a huge Mega Mine (Grouse Ridge) in North Bend,WA. There would be processing plants for asphalt and concrete right in the heart of the Mountains to Sound Greenway.

A massive 350 acre mine on Grouse Ridge and at Interstate-90/Exit 34 near North Bend, WA, at the gateway to the Cascade Mountains.

317 acres on top of Grouse Ridge ("upper site") planned for the site of a stone quarry and rock crushers.

25 acres on the valley floor below Grouse Ridge ("lower site"), next to I-90/Exit 34, planned for additional mining, large enclosed asphalt and concert processing plants, and heavy truck loading area.

An above-ground, 1 to 2 mile long conveyor belt would transport material from the Grouse Ridge upper site to I-90/Exit 34's lower site.

All proposed mining and processing is planned directly above the East King Counties, Potential future drinking water supply, the underground North Bend Water Acquifer (currently supplying water to North Bend residents).

Within full view of popular regional hiking trails, including Mt. Si trails, Twin Falls Park trails, Rattlesnake Ridge, and others.

Beside the Snoqualmie River middle and south forks, popular regional kayaking, fishing and recreational resources.

[DCramer]

Just bringing this to the top again.

Here is a section copied from the State Parks Website referring to access of "closed" parks:

QUESTION: The parks are on public lands. If they are closed, can the public still gain access to the land for recreational purposes?

Answer: Because of liability and safety considerations, State Parks would close gates, lock buildings and turn off some utilities. Only minimal staffing would remain in place for stewardship and security activities. State Parks discourages the public from placing themselves and their families at risk by entering closed parks. It is the hope that the parks can be mothballed or temporarily closed until the economy recovers sufficiently to reopen them to the public

If you want to ensure continued legal access to the Deception Pass crags I would make an effort make your opinion heard. Earlier today I called the State Parks and left a message asking how access would/could be effected by the closure of Olallie Park. I will post again when/if my call is returned.

D

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bug:

When it was my business to advise candidates, there was a very common understanding. Sway the people who vote. Don't give a rip about those who don't. According King County Cross Tabulated Voter Analysis, 76% of all registered voters who actually voted in 2 or more of the last 4 elections were 45 or older. Drop the age down to 35 and you have 87%. Drop it to 25 and you have 99%.Now why do you suppose our voting populace tends to favor conservative, "give me mine now" kinds of ballot measures? Because they're all gonna be dead by the time we really pay the MAN.VOTE damn it!

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Is that why the State House, Senate, and Governorship are all controlled by DEMOCRATS? Washington State is a big blue "D" on the map of the USA. To shift the blame for our ills onto conservatives is chickenshit handwringing.

Also, your assumptions attempt to portray that the 45&older crowd are overwhelmingly conservative. While this may fit a steroetype you hope to perpetuate, I doubt it is true here in Washington State.

The surplus is almost gone (300m left) because lawmakers in Olympia are unwilling to make tough decisions re state employment levels. (You think there is a "state hiring freeze" in effect? Ask to see Gov Locke's signed decree....It doesn't exist. And DSHS is still hiring!) Revenues are down primarily because of this so called "recession" and the associated decrease in tax revenue. Olympia always threatens state park closures to leverage and/or intimidate their way to the next proposed general tax increase. I think the record on this tactic is crystal clear. ...."We'll make 'em pay. Lets close their favorite park!"

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

[Paul_detrick]

Nicely said.

[Andy_Fitz]

I attended last night's public meeting regarding proposed park closures, testified before three parks commissioners and the agency director, and had some of our questions answered. I would have posted last night, but my house is undergoing a remodel and I'm temporarily displaced at my in-laws' place. Bottom line:

1) Exit 38 is part of Iron Horse State Park, NOT Ollalie State Park. The closure of Ollalie should not affect access to the 38 crags, nor--as I understand it--services associated with the 38 crags (i.e., toilets). Ranger presence from Ollalie, to the extent it discouraged break-ins at parking areas, etc., would be eliminated.

2) Wenatchee Confluence State Park is on the list. Rangers from this park maintain Peshastin as a satellite park. I confirmed, however, that the closure of WCSP would NOT result in closure of Peshastin.

3) As Darryl suggests, Wallace Falls SP is linked with the undeveloped State Park-owned lands at Index (basically Upper Wall and The Country). A Wallace Falls closure wouldn't result in direct impacts to climbing at Index, since there currently are no facilities there. However, I've been working with State Parks for the past 6 years to get ALL of Index in State Parks ownership; a good portion of the Lower Town Wall is private property. A Wallace Falls closure might threaten State Parks' commitment to this acquisition. GIVEN THAT, I ENCOURAGE THE FOLLOWING: WRITE TO STATE PARKS AT http://www.parks.wa.gov/budgetcuts.asp AND TELL THEM:

*YOU'RE A CLIMBER*YOU'RE AWARE STATE PARKS HAS BEEN EVALUATING ACQUISITION OF THE LOWER TOWN WALL*THE LOWER TOWN WALL IS A VITAL RESOURCE FOR CLIMBERS IN WASHINGTON, AND BEYOND*A CLOSURE OF WALLACE FALLS S.P., WHETHER TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT, SHOULD NOT RESULT IN STAT PARKS ABANDONING OR DE-PRIORITIZING PURSUIT OF THE INDEX ACQUISITION

Please, if you write, be courteous to State Parks. I know from a LOT of direct experience that, on the whole, State Parks has been incredibly supportive of climbing, more than any other land management agency I've dealt with. We owe them our respect.

Andy FitzWashington Access Fund Coordinator

[allison]

"Fairweather"....different discussion group, different handle, same crackpot. I was on another board this guy used to frequent, but he got kicked off, for good reason too. Be thankful cc.com doesn't have an office for him to bother!

[DCramer]

Andy is correct that the climbing is in Iron Horse State Park and thus the closure of Olallie Park doesn’t close Deception Crags, but the response I received (this am)from my voice message to State Parks while acknowledging this fact also clearly stated that while access through Olallie could not be prevented it would be [direct quote] "highly discouraged." The person who left the message was Virginia Painter of the State Parks Department. {Her phone number is available via PM} While in practical terms everyone seems to agree that access won’t be affected, I encourage everyone to go ahead and contact the State Parks and say that continued access to the crags is important!

[Bug]

Write and vote. Statistically, the higher the percentage of voter turnout, the more liberal the outcome and the younger the demographics. Public works such as parks, public transportation, etc do not tend to be supported during low turnout elections. Sorry Fairweather. They are numbers. They won't do anything I tell them to.

[Peter_Puget]

Left or Right Wing it shouldn’t matter. The ebb and the flow of the business cycle are not shocking new developments. A prudent government will/would have prepared for such circumstances. The sad fact is that there are strong incentives for the government not to prepare for them. Even more sadly, most of these incentives operate against the ostensible mission of government and work to the advantage of the powers that be. Look at the Parks Dept’s website and see how much money is expected to be saved by these closures? Then see how much thought has been given to outsourcing such things such as park maintenance. This small change has the potential to save lots of $$, yet it has never been seriously examined. Given the option of closing parks I think it should have been given serious thought. Currently Bellevue Parks Department outsources some services and I think all the Provincial Parks in BC do as well. Dru - is this true and how has it been working?

[Lambone]

Hey this is Lambone's fiance. If you all have opinions about the proposed gravel mine by Exit 38, there is public meeting Monday night to hear comments on the Sand and Gravel permit that the mine applied for. If they don't get this permit, they won't be able to mine. Anyone from the public can speak. If you have opinons come!! The meeting is being held in North Bend. I don't have the address, but details will be in the Seattle PI tomorrow (the local section, I think that's section D). Thanks!

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by allison:

"Fairweather"....different discussion group, different handle, same crackpot. I was on another board this guy used to frequent, but he got kicked off, for good reason too. Be thankful cc.com doesn't have an office for him to bother!

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Allison,

If I recall, you're one of the main reasons the site in question was shut down! I was proud to be "kicked off" the site when it became apparent to me that this "trails organization" was no longer an organization that supported hiking, but rather had become just another anti-access "advocacy" group,(ie: their efforts to close Middle Fork Road) and that any dissenting ideas were regularly edited and/or censored. I wrote a letter to the board of this "trails organization" to this effect just before I was ejected. Yahoo!

I have read your quirky posts here with interest but have deliberately avoided challenging your ideas even when it was apparent you were up to your old tricks.

Lets leave it here and agree that our ideas are about 180 from eachother. I'm in no mood for a mud-fest with you.

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

[Dru]

Provincial Parks in Bc just hire contractors to collect fees and change TP in toilets at drive-in Parks campgrounds. Sort of like campground hosts at 8-Mile except they dont live there all day but just show up a few times a day. If you hike into Garibaldi, for instance, a real live Parks Ranger is gonna come by Black Tusk Meadows to get your camping fee. Same at Kain Hut in the Bugaboos. Those guys aint privatized (yet... bastard government ).

[allison]

Bryan,

Given that you were long gone when the board was shut down, I doubt you know what you were talking about. I still write for the WTA magazine, how about you?

Allison