Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
Lowell_Skoog

Cascade Alpine Journal?

Recommended Posts

klenke said:

I guess the only other comment I have right now is that CAJ ("Cascade Alpine Journal") sounds too phonetically and looks too visually close to AAJ ("American Alpine Journal"). In this way, people might confuse the two. NWAJ ("Northwest Alpine Journal") would be another possibility that is visually a verbally distinct from AAJ. CAJ is also close to Beckey's CAG ("Cascade Alpine Guide").

 

As has been mentioned, there already is a publication called the CAJ. Canadian Alpine Journal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you wanted to call it something distinct from CAG, AAJ, etc you could call it the SNAFFLEHOUND ANNUAL or something like that.

 

I notice that all the small monthly or bimonthly regionals like Boulderdash, the Mountain Yodel etc have gone out of business. I think going annual, journal style is the way to avoid that.

 

Also people are more likely to put a lot of work into a published piece than they are in to a submitted online trip report in my experience. Especially the large fraction of people that still seem to climb a lot but dont have a computer or go online to spray confused.gif wazup with that anyhow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Necronomicon wrote:

 

Does this site serve the same function?

 

Not really. This site is an essential forum for unfiltered discussions. An annual journal would draw upon information originally posted here. But it would have an editor (or editorial team) that would distill and enhance the material to create articles like you find in the published journals. It would produce a record that you could refer to in ten, twenty, or fifty years to find out what happened in the year 20XX, in the words of the participants.

 

cj001f wrote:

 

The key to longevity is a committed group of publishers - not the choice of format.

 

and ryland_moore wrote:

 

May be good to contact the regional chapter of the AAC to see about funding and support.

 

Yeah, that's why I asked about organizations or individuals that might get involved with this. A group like the local AAC chapter or the Mountaineers would have the longevity. The trick would be to combine the stability of a group like that with the creative energy of the larger climbing community--like the people in this forum.

 

Dru wrote:

 

not sure that an on line website journal is such a good idea for the following reasons...

 

Good points. I myself prefer printed materials, but what little I know about it suggests that the cost and distribution issues can be daunting. That's why I wondered if an on-line journal might be easier to pull off. You're right that the name "Cascade Alpine Journal" would not be a smart choice. I deliberately picked it to be provocative. wink.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is a good idea and deserves to be pursued

 

i think it should be hardbound

 

i dont think it should be affiliated with cc.com

 

i dont think any of us on this board should publish it personally

 

content will not be hard to come by if its a yearly publication. there is too much that goes on around here, both reported on this board and not reported on this board, to not fill alot of pages. When you think about including art such as topos, some choice images, and some other artistic flair, you get alot of content very quickly

 

financing could be arranged by a steering commitee, which is responsible for

 

1) soliciting content

2) choosing content to be published

3) maintianing a relationship with the publisher

4) distribution

5) financing

 

the first edition will make or break you. Some great content, great layout, great availability at a reasonable price will solidify or nix such a publications legitimacy the first year.

 

the steering committee or whatever should not necessarily be made up of climbers. Should have solid accounting and solid publishing skills. Good ideas are good ideas until they end up like the Kalakala

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good idea too. IMHO I would rather see fewer pages with higher quality.

 

why not hjave it afiliateed with CC.Com??/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A printed version would be nice, but when you take into account having to fund it, get it printed and dealing with a printer, and then distributing it then you are talking some serious work that might not pay off.

 

With an online PDF version to start, your costs would be nonexistant if you don't include time involved, and you would be able to establish some legitimacy. If people want to sit in their rocker and read it, they can print it out. Then your only risk is your time and your pride and not your money.

 

Keep things simple to test the idea and go from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the botom line Jon is that it most likely will not pay off. If some one did this it would have to be because they want to, and enjoy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...just quoting figures. and the way to get this thing off the ground financially would be to build strong relationships with the commercial interests in climbing...

 

for example, the CEO of Trango, founding member of the Access Fund. CEO of Cascade Designs, leader of the OIA. industry teaming to promote climbing issues is the way to spin this.

 

my paper goes in a seattlewide, 50,000 copy 40 pager Nov 16th, let me know if you need any price quotes from inside the publishing arena.

 

and as to Alex's comments cantfocus.gif no, Lowell, it's probably better if you don't actually get involved with publishing this thing thumbs_down.gif (huh? Alex? are you drunk?) just don't affiliate it to a website, this needs broader support than any stand alone website would get you.

 

you want to be a journal with an online component, not the other way around!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jon said:

A printed version would be nice, but when you take into account having to fund it, get it printed and dealing with a printer, and then distributing it then you are talking some serious work that might not pay off.

 

With an online PDF version to start, your costs would be nonexistant if you don't include time involved, and you would be able to establish some legitimacy. If people want to sit in their rocker and read it, they can print it out. Then your only risk is your time and your pride and not your money.

 

Keep things simple to test the idea and go from there.

 

Not a bad idea to get future printing volumes out there if it seemed a good work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said:

why not hjave it afilliated with CC.Com??/

It depends on what he meant by "afilliated."

 

Like it or not, this site works and is much better than the alternative, which is what the Northwest climbing scene was like before this website (or other sites like WTA.org or bivouac.com).

 

This website also compels (pushes) people to go out and do new things and then post (and even chestbeat) about it. If this continues without proper "official" documentation, in about 10 years when our generation's memories begin to fade or the next generation begins climbing nescient of what has already been done you're going to have a harder time keeping facts straight.

 

Like it or not, climbing as a pastime continues to grow. The data from these climbers keeps streaming in. If you don't catalog the information, then it will become that much more obscure. Obscurity is not good for FAs, FWAs, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alex said:

i dont think it should be affiliated with cc.com

 

Lowell is proposing a "Cascade Alpine Journal", not a "Summary of CC.Com posters Achievments for the Year". Thats simple enough to compile and publish online from the Trip Report forums. "Cascade Alpine Journal" seems to imply something more general, where Mountaineers are not spat on, people who have no internet skills can submit material and expect it not to be lambasted online the next day, and things are more objective

 

Alex said:

i dont think any of us on this board should publish it personally

 

Ok, I'll spell it out. I had no say in Beck organizing my "cascadeclimbers.com" Rope Up. I had no say in Beck being my spokesperson to Paul Shell, the Lt Governor and other luminaries about access issues that affect me. But I don't want Beck, with his desktop publishing rig, inkjet printer, and meager Photoshot skillz to publish and potentially trash a good idea. Clear enough for you? I don't want grandiose money making schemes for how to finance something, the less you owe, the better off. Freedom.

 

No, not drunk.

 

Alex

 

 

Edited by Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

making PDF available for free for a journal you hope people will pay money for, means you are reducing your own sales, no? cause some wont pay for what they can get for free just like with MP3s.

 

i know that the online "news" component of magazines like Climbing, R&I, Gripped etc makes me less likely to want to buy them because I can read the good part for free. If the articles are sucky and you already know what the news is then there is no reason to buy the issue except to look at pictures of Rachel Babkirk in a sports bra smirk.gif not that there would be any of that in an alpine journal but you get my point right

 

as for the advertisers - Beck is being wildly optimistic - big diff between a big, free, tabloid type paper that is just an excuse to wrap throw away articles around ads, and a climber journal, with a circulation of probably 2,000 or less, which is more about content than advertising... but then again Beck just likes to blab about his job, and throw chairs at people. boxing_smiley.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dru I'm saying test the idea with the cheap PDF option and then move it to the print form if you get enough support to do it.

 

If I were to personally do this, I would solicate reports and stories with picture from people both on and off the site. I would ask a couple people to review stuff, put together a nice PDF, and put it on the site for free for anyone to download. People could email it or print it out for their friends. If people appreciated my work and wanted to contribute something there is a pay pal link on the site. This is the cheapest and simplest way to do it. bigdrink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dru said:

... but then again Beck just likes to blab about his job, and throw chairs at people. boxing_smiley.gif

 

Don't forget the 175' Yacht cruise that he will only alow a hot chick to accompany him on. yelrotflmao.gif

 

BTW Paul Schell's last name is spelled Schell not Shell...something you might want to think about before you start brown nosing the shit out of him. wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the "dummy issue" PDF was used successfully by Alpinist to get started.

 

of course, Alpinist has the CEO of RedHat ponying up 'unlimited' dough to keep the thing afloat.... that's why they hardly have any ads...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes same concept. They keep it afloat with $12.95 an issue. Got #4 today and it is very nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jon said:

Dru I'm saying test the idea with the cheap PDF option and then move it to the print form if you get enough support to do it.

 

If I were to personally do this, I would solicate reports and stories with picture from people both on and off the site. I would ask a couple people to review stuff, put together a nice PDF, and put it on the site for free for anyone to download. People could email it or print it out for their friends. If people appreciated my work and wanted to contribute something there is a pay pal link on the site. This is the cheapest and simplest way to do it. bigdrink.gif

JON has any one told you this week that you totaly rockband.gif? cause you DO grin.gifbigdrink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dru said:

the "dummy issue" PDF was used successfully by Alpinist to get started.

 

of course, Alpinist has the CEO of RedHat ponying up 'unlimited' dough to keep the thing afloat.... that's why they hardly have any ads...

 

Dru,

 

I got that issue 0 and thought it was good enough to check it out in the stores when issue 1 came out. But Alpinist is a quarterly, and the PDF pilot thing doesnt work all that well for an annual, the buzz is killed after a few months. Annuals are best hard-bound...?

 

I didnt know that about the financing. I was wondering how they kept it so clean, but thought it was because it was quarterly

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Annuals are best hard-bound...?

 

I disagree. The Canyucker Alpine Journal kicks serious ass and is softbound. Well done and it's worth the money.

 

Hardbound=more money to pay....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×