Should Guidebook editors Censor "Offensive" Names

[Dru]

well, there was some arse who put up a route in scotland sometime ago called "look at the tits on that". it's all just a bit sad, really

 

Yep, it was me and my pals. Something about a pregnant sheep we saw which provoked the comment "Hey, check the tits on that" Well it seemed funny at the time.

 

Not as funny as the reactions of the self righteous dicks who always have to sound of in a superior tone about how swearing is just so sad.

 

We like fu**ing swearing.

 

We like upsetting those it offends even more.

 

After the furore over 'check the tits' had died down we recorded a few more new route names that you will doubtless enjoy if/when they appear in print.e.g.

 

Licquor Route

I'm the man that beefed your Aunty

Dolphin is Delicious

The fox enjoys the chase

We all like a clean old man

etc.

 

Hope these really p*ss you off you tedious f*cking w*nkstain

[allthumbs]

sounds like just another day at cc.com

[sk]

ABSOLUETLY NOT...that is one of my favorite things about climbing... clever amusing or sick names to routes

[Sphinx]

Then again, Muffy is sick and twisted, so maybe we should do the opposite of what she suggests.....

[specialed]

You should ask Dr. Sniff and his Tuna Boaters if they would be offended at such off color route names.

[Dru]

In the Whistler guidebook, "Sewer Rat Might Taste Like Pumpkin Pie But I'd Never Know Cause I'd Never Eat the Filthy Motherfucker" had its name truncated, and "A * In Every Rice Bowl" was renamed Rice Bowl by editorial whim. Both names are phrases taken verbatim from pulp fiction

[Dru]

On the Weeping Wall, Joe-Joe changed Mark Twight's route original name "Ice Motherfucking T Bitch" to just plain old Ice T for the guidebook.

[fern]

why did Brachtylydactus and the Grand Wazoo get renamed?

[Dru]

Cause those were not the names applied by the first ascent party. Brachydactylus was made up by guudebook author Smaill, and Grand Wazoo was named by Beckham believing he had made FFA of Left Side not knowing it had had FFA by Nic Taylor in 1975.

[mattp]

In general, I like a variety of route names and there has long been a tradition of naming routes with off-color jokes or profanity. I wasn't impressed with a bunch of names that were given to some climbs at Vantage, however, and I was even LESS impressed when someone drew red lines on a photograph, labelled them with names such as "Menstruating Whale Snatch" and "Smells Like Teen Pussy," and put the photograph up on a bulletin board at a trailhead where people take their kids because it is featured in a popular hiking guide to 50 popular hikes for children. I don't know what Marline and Jim did in the new guide -- are these route names in there?

[Cpt.Caveman]

I think they edit them names with stuff like **##**

[lummox]

ive had names of routes i done changed. so the fuck what? i even have had routes retrobolted without my consent. who cares? ive lost a lot of sense of self importance through the teachings of the dalai lama. though its still nice to have people respect my accomplishments. you know. for the effort.

[Sphinx]

lummox said:

ive had names of routes i done changed. so the fuck what? i even have had routes retrobolted without my consent. who cares? ive lost a lot of sense of self importance through the teachings of the dalai lama. though its still nice to have people respect my accomplishments. you know. for the effort.

That you've climbed!

That you've put up routes!

That you read the Dalai Lama!!

 

Talk about a good troll.

[lummox]

Sphinx said:

lummox said:

ive had names of routes i done changed. so the fuck what? i even have had routes retrobolted without my consent. who cares? ive lost a lot of sense of self importance through the teachings of the dalai lama. though its still nice to have people respect my accomplishments. you know. for the effort.

That you've climbed!

That you've put up routes!

That you read the Dalai Lama!!

 

Talk about a good troll.

achacha. i got a million of em.

[Jason_Martin]

I belive that the issue of censoring names is more complicated that it might seem at first. On the one hand I believe that the vast majority of names should remain. Names with popular explitives that most climbers use on a regular basis are perfectly acceptable. Most climbers will not find a climb with "fucking" or "shit" or any number of other words in it offensive. As a result these types of words should not be censored.

 

On the other hand, there are words and phrases which are truly offensive to the vast majority of climbers. Words and phrases which are clearly biggoted in nature should be avoided by those who are naming routes and WILL be avoided by guidebook authors.

 

Words like the N word in particular say more about the first ascentionists than the quality of the route. Whether or not the word is an allusion to a film doesn't matter. Many will assume that the first ascentionists were racists and biggots. And no reputable publisher will allow this type of language in their literature.

 

As a guidebook author I have no problem publishing language that is acceptable by the vast majority of the climbing community. But I will not include route names in my books which are racially prejudiced or homophobic in nature and I believe that most climbers appreciate this limited censorship.

 

Jason

[russ]

Sometimes climb names can put you in awkward position. Years ago I was showing my Mom pictures of us climbing "X-rated Tits" is joshua tree. Sure enough she asked what climb is was. Ah, ah "x-rated" Mom.

[jefffski]

I like the original names but sometimes it's better if the whole name, if perhaps innapropriate, be printed in the back of the guidebook. It sure is NIGGARDLY of the authors to keep the name out entirely.

[Cpt.Caveman]

jefffski said:

I like the original names but sometimes it's better if the whole name, if perhaps innapropriate, be printed in the back of the guidebook. It sure is NIGGARDLY of the authors to keep the name out entirely.

 

Some authors have a reputation to uphold and preferred to be respected. That doesnt mean they might not like a particular climb and may change the name a bit in order to include the climb in their book. I think most people get the general idea. But to ask Beckey if he is going to include muff diver 22 5.7 III in a book might be ridiculous. I mean I dont think he would publicly put that name in. Although he may respect the ascent I believe some authors have more class than that.

 

I can totally agree with Mattp's comments about whale snatch and other stuff. It's cool to have an original name but I mean c'mon - it's just a fact of life that nobody has to print in their guidebook that sort of thing. At least they might put the line in there so others can enjoy. That's usually the biggest factor anyway.

 

I am not a christian lover going to bible studies every sunday but I can definitely see why they may be edited removed or whatever.

 

If a route is that good the word gets around fast.

[Jason_Martin]

jefffski said:

I like the original names but sometimes it's better if the whole name, if perhaps innapropriate, be printed in the back of the guidebook. It sure is NIGGARDLY of the authors to keep the name out entirely.

 

As Caveman said, those of us who feel some sense of responsibility will not use this kind of language. And those of us who have a reputation to uphold will not use this language either. I truly do find this type of hate language offensive. And the reality is that those people who use this language around the generally liberal climbing community will find themselves ostracized.

 

The result is that a responsible guidebook author will not write this type of language in his or her book and will certainly not put in some sort of appendix with the original names. You just won' t find this in mainstream american guidebooks... And I am thankful for this.

 

Jason

[Cpt.Caveman]

The result is that a responsible guidebook author will not write this type of language in his or her book and will certainly not put in some sort of appendix with the original names. You just won' t find this in mainstream american guidebooks... And I am thankful for this.

 

It's here that I think is something debatable but my opinion is that if I was to write some climbing guidebook I would either disinclude, edit, or *** the name.

 

I dont see any time in the near 20 years any reason intent desire or etc to write a guidebook for myself.

 

BTW the new Leavenworth guidebook is a big leap in production\quality even though it is off subject. I just wish they would still include some "carrots" or adventure routes that were in there years ago. Some to mention are Jupiter Rock and Waterfall Column which I hear rumors slapneck has done. Give the necessary beta slapneck!

[Dru]

Jason_Martin said:

jefffski said:

I like the original names but sometimes it's better if the whole name, if perhaps innapropriate, be printed in the back of the guidebook. It sure is NIGGARDLY of the authors to keep the name out entirely.

 

As Caveman said, those of us who feel some sense of responsibility will not use this kind of language. And those of us who have a reputation to uphold will not use this language either. I truly do find this type of hate language offensive. And the reality is that those people who use this language around the generally liberal climbing community will find themselves ostracized.

 

The result is that a responsible guidebook author will not write this type of language in his or her book and will certainly not put in some sort of appendix with the original names. You just won' t find this in mainstream american guidebooks... And I am thankful for this.

 

Jason

 

jason - maybe you should look it up in a dictionary before you label the word "niggardly" as "hate speech" smart guy i believe you are in for a surprise

[Jason_Martin]

Dru said:

jason - maybe you should look it up in a dictionary before you label the word "niggardly" as "hate speech" smart guy i believe you are in for a surprise

 

Dru -- maybe you should look up the history of the word before you insist that it is not hate language. Smart guy, I believe that you will be the one that is in for a surprise.

 

There is a lot more to words like this than a simple definition. There are entire books written on the use of this particular word and its different incarnations throughout the history of the english language as hate speech. Certainly if you were interested in actually learning something Dru, you might do a little reading:

 

History of the N Word

 

This debate alone is enough to prove that the word is inciniary and should simply be left out of guidebooks.

 

Jason

[fern]

niggard

 

 

[Dru]

fern said:

niggard

 

 

poor jason

[Jason_Martin]

I understand the semantics. And I understand that the exact word in question is slightly different than its root. But what you are ignoring is the root.

 

No one in their right mind will use any incarnation of that word if they do not wish to be thought of as a racist.

 

In Seattle, a public school teacher was recently forced to resign when he used the n word as an example of hate language in class. Books -- even those which support the plight of African Americans -- are often banned because the word is in them. College professors and executives alike avoid the word because of its potential repercussions. There is no more controversial word in the english language.

 

I do believe that a dialogue about the word and about its use in the language is a good thing. It's good to understand the history and culture that has defined English. However, the continued malicious use of this word is morally wrong and to include it in a route name or a guidebook, which are essentially fun things open to everyone, takes away from their innocence.

 

It is incredibly ignorant to believe that the vast majority of the populace without a dictionary sitting in front of them will make any distinction between the root word that ends in "er" or "ard" or "ish" or any other series of letters. And if you think differently, I would invite you to use this word in polite company or at work just to see what happens. After you've done this -- if you still have your job -- I have a feeling that you're going to feel a bit dumb when you have to grab the dictionary, look up the word, and show your coworkers that you weren't using hate language... That indeed you were trying to educate them to the proper use of the word so that they too might be able to use the word correctly in polite company.

 

Now back to the subject at hand: Controversy over semantics and history and prejudice are simply not worth it in a climbing guidebook.

 

Jason