JayB Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I chose a slab at Peshastin for one of my first ever leads a few years ago, and found myself way out over the last bolt, unable to move up or down, with my feet slowly giving way as the sand beneath them turned into little ball bearings...a half a second later and 30 feet lower I sized up the damage and pondered calling my nearest blood relative and asking for an impromptu skin graft. I didn’t learn much from the experience besides a health respect for slabs and an aversion to falling on them, and that double Carhartt’s would have been much more appropriate attire than shorts. I certainly did not come away from the experience thinking that there must be a “better” way to take a fall on a slab – e.g. a technique that one could use to minimize the carnage other than - not falling. However, I met a guy this summer who and after claimed that the best way to minimize tissue loss, should you find yourself about to skid down a slab, was to run around and run down the face. Said it helped him conserve a fair amount of flesh during a long fall on Topographic Oceans just a day or two before. Having the presence of mind and the balance to turn around and run seemed like a tall order at the time, but since then I’ve heard others repeat this and still more claiming that (even more improbably) giant backward steps were the way to go. So here’s the question: Anyone out there ever tried this or know anyone who has? I don’t plan on ever taking another fall on a slab if I can help it, and if I do there’s a strong chance that I’ll be wearing the said double Carhartts, but…should I find myself in that position again I’d be willing to give the running thing a try as it doesn’t seem like you’d be any more messed up than if you had just applied the skin-brakes from the get go. Quote
allison Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I haven't tried it myself but I've heard of this workinf from several people. Quote
Uncle_Tricky Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Hey Jayb, I'm curious specifically how you fell--were you sliding on hands and knees? Did you tumble? Did you tear up your hands trying instinctively to grab the rock and slow yourself down as you fell? Where did you get the worst "slab rash?" I've never taken a big fall on a slab, so my thought are just conjecture and I'd be interested in hearing more informed opinions. On smooth pure friction slabs with no features, I've always prepared myself mentally to just stay balanced, keep my weight on my shoes while rapidly "crawling" backwards with my hands and feet. On a climb with smooth rock and no features I've thought this might be the best option. If its a knobbly slab or a slab with edges and features, the risk is that your feet could easily catch a knob or edge and you could break either ankle or flip yourself over sideways or backwards. Its hard for me to imagine that turning and running would be an realistic option unless you choose it before you actually fell. That would require that you give up and resign yourself to falling--which I think is a bad idea. My thought is that backpeddling or a controlled slide and some bad slab rash would be preferable to doing something "rash" that would cause you to tumble and risk breaking bones or whacking your head. On the sharp, crystal studded knobby slabs like in Tuolomne, you'd probably just shred yourself. In those cases, there seems to be no good options so I'd just focus on NOT falling. [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Uncle Tricky ] Quote
max Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Jay! I've talken several good wingers at Peshastin. I think the best advise is the "(gentle) step backwards" Even the most feature-less climbs there are still pretty steep, and just a little time away from the rock will get you to near the end of your rope. Also, having good posture will both reduce the likelyhood of falling and put you in a good position to minimize scraping and get you ready for "landing" Getting low = getting grated. As for this turn-around-and-run garbage: there might be someone out there who's had luck with this techhnique, but I can't imagine this as a good idea. First, if you're really falling because you can't hold on any longer, there's no time to collect yourself enough for this. If you do have time, you're not thinking about climbing, you're thinking about falling. Peshastin is all about focus and determination. There's no time to plan out such a manuver. In addition to this, facing down is a terrible way to begin the deceleration phase of a fall. Even with a nice skinny dynamic rope, being in that position is going to result in a violent twisting motion originating from the lower back. Not good. Further, I think all this moving around is only going to increase the chance of getting your legs tangeld up in the rope. Screw the raspberrys, a backwards face plant after even five feet's going to screw you up bad. I'm sure you've heard about the falling cat position (no, not one of THOSE positions). It just like any sport's "ready position." So as far as turning around and running, I call bullshit. Finally, I'm sure you've noticed the fine grained, loosely bonded nature of Peshastin rock. Compared to granite slabs, espescially those in S. California and Arizona, Peshastin sandstone is pretty non-abrasive. I guess that fact isn't really very comforting! Good luck in WA! dave Quote
Matt Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by JayB: . . . giant backward steps were the way to go. So here's the question: Anyone out there ever tried this or know anyone who has? Done it. Usually I'll slide a bit, then take backward steps until the rope catches. It's better than riding out the fall on my tips and prematurely wearing out the tips of my climbing shoes. You have to pay attention and "step" as fast as gravity pulls you down or you'll end up catching a heel, falling head first and sliding on your back, and that's no good. Quote
Rafael_H Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I fell just once on a friction slab, on Local Boys Do Good in Squamish. It was just like a regular fall. I overstretched, no-no on friction, and the next thing I knew I was dangling. I fell 10-12 feet though so possibly, if the fall is long and you feel the peeling, you could decide to run... But I seriously doubt it. Perhaps if it is 5.0, really low angle. Not in my bag of tricks. Quote
JayB Posted February 13, 2002 Author Posted February 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Uncle Tricky: Hey Jayb, I'm curious specifically how you fell--were you sliding on hands and knees? Did you tumble? Did you tear up your hands trying instinctively to grab the rock and slow yourself down as you fell? Where did you get the worst "slab rash?" I've never taken a big fall on a slab, so my thought are just conjecture and I'd be interested in hearing more informed opinions. Well, from what I can remember the fall went slip (just as I was trying to make it to a better stance), tumble, skid. Most of the damage seemed to come about during the final "skid" phase, as I was pretty discombobulated by this point and not able to formulate a very successful skin-preservation strategy on the fly. I sort of vaguely recall trying to re-orient myself using my hands and feet, and I think that my knees got into the act as well - consequently my palms, knees, elbows, and forearms to the brunt of the damage. The rope also caught behind my leg and gave me a pretty good burn there as well. The burned hand (and knee) teaches best.... Quote
Szyjakowski Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 to minimize the potential skin graffing...the one ultimate reason to remember is friends do not let friends climb slabs...at least without cracks)... two do not fall...three if you fall...relax and curse allah because you scraped a body part or don't fall ever as you may remember gravity is on your side on a slab Quote
johnny Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Hey JayB Move to North Carolina!!!!! Aside from a few areas there are very few slabs!! Seriously though, I love dicey, tenuous friction. Its all balance, technique and mindset. you never fall due to the dreaded "stupid hand" that just can't hold on any longer. There is nothing I hate more than having a solid hold at your disposal and not being able to use it. Here are two things to try: First, don't fall! Second, try to perfect the last microsecond push away from the rock. It is hard (and sometimes not possible when your foot just plain blows out) but someone earlier mentioned a catlike leap. You end up bck on the rope on or before the time you touch the rock again. This does not mean give up and jump, just use whatever limbs are still in contact with the rock to push yourself away. Oh yeah, always wear long pants........Did I mention pants and always? I always wear long pants and you should too. You really should wear long pants. I highly recommend pants over shorts. Pants are a good idea. Protect your knees with pants. You should consider wearing long pants. As a rule, long pants are better. Pants. Theyr'e not just for breakfast anymore Quote
KeithKSchultz Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Don't panic! One spring I was fatter than usual and went to Yosemite to work back into shape. I found a guy who lead 5.12 who was looking for a partner. We discussed my disgust and elected to do Angeline or something like that - a 15 pitch 5.8 slab route on the apron. We got up about 5 pitches and the route was a waterfall. There were old rusty 1/4 inch bolts out to the right so we followed those. They got spaced out and into harder climbing where I learned how to deal with "falling" on granite slabs and it should work on just about anything. Keep your head. Keep your balance. Stay in position and beleive that you will stop. Walk your hands down and even your feet if you have have have to. But if you move your feet, your position all of a sudden sucks. We each took some slides. Some for as far as 15 ft. But neither of us ever had to be caught by a rusty old 1/4" bolt. It was a very warm fuzzy feeling of freedom to realize that this could be done. We ended up doing some really hard friction climbing while feeling relaxed. I have a friend who once slid 150' to the ground on a hard slab problem. He hit the ground at a slow walk with a big smile on his face. He had to resole his shoes though. That was almost the first ascent of Pink Poodle Buttress in Roaring Lion Creek in the Bitterroots. We went home to get a bolt kit. Quote
chris_w Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I took a slab fall on Dark Rythm at Darrington this summer. I kinda new I was coming off after a bad move with what looked like no retreat. It was going to be more of a pendulume. I was about 10 feet up and about 10 feet to left of my last bolt. When I started to go I tried to lean back on the rope, turn around, and run down hill. It worked for a couple of steps and then I couldn't keep up ended up sliding on my left side. I put a rip in my shorts a bruise on my butt and a good scrap of 2 inch scrape on my left elbow. I shook it off and headed up a different way. This was one of my first big falls (by my standards). I think turning around saved me a little skin, but I have no other slab falls to compare it to. I was with Matt P that day and I think before we started the climb he said something like "when you fall, don't turn around" See how good I listen chris Quote
Peter_Puget Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Back in the days of EBs I was climbing Misty Beethoven (Glacier Point Apron) and while belaying my partner up the second pitch he took several long “falls.” Each time he simply would slide down the rock on all fours and then would stick his but out in the air and literally come “squeaking” to a stop. He was convinced that hearing the squeak was indicative of a good smear. I don't think modern rubber ha sth esame squeak. Quote
Dru Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 Hmmm, running down slabs creates more slack in system, so an alert belayer can supposedly yard in more and reduce length of fall... Also, slab sliding falls destroy shoe rubber real fast, so running down does less damage than sliding friction. From experience on Dreams of Passion at Smoke Bluffs... yup. Now - a buddy of mine was leading Potholes Direct Direct one time... he got to the corner that you layback the edge of and was just leaning around it with chin on arete when his feet skidded. Dude came to a stop 20 feet lower but with most of his chin eroded. Couldnt shave it and grew a 3-week goatee then picked bits of scab out of it for another week. Quote
erik Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 i ve seena a guy run down and slab then out his face into it as he tripped up....i have also seen another guy fall of of inline started to run down it turned back around and tool the skin off of his arm on the day of prom........ dont fall is the option and then if you dont choose that option i would say push out and hope for the best...... Quote
chucK Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I second (or third or fourth or whatever) the notion to not give up when you start sliding. Well, I guess if you're a dirtbag climber who'd rather sacrifice his/her skin ['cause, like, it'll grow back dude] to save expensive shoe rubber, then I'd say just get in the butt slide position. If you do the butt-slide, make sure you know where your car keys are! But anyway, back to the point of the controlled slide. One day after many pitches at Three O'Clock Rock we were enjoying the post-climb festivities below Silent Running. In our hiking shoes we started "bouldering" that easy finger crack at the base. After messing around with it a little I found I was able to glissade on the slab [backward in the "cat" position]. I found I could keep myself at a reasonable speed and somewhat direct myself over to a less steep spot where I could stop myself. I haven't yet duplicated this feat with rock shoes, but it appears from the anecdotes posted above that it is possible. Anyway, one day after climbing at Exfoliation Dome I was descending the granite sidewalk with two other guys. That thing can get pretty intimidating if you've got hiking boots on and you get the "fear". Anyway, I'm relating my "controlled slide" theories to these guys and I'm glad I did because I guess I got one of them thinking enough to induce the "fear" so he gave me his beer! [someone only brought two beers for the three of us and I was previously the odd man out]. Right on! Quote
Terminal_Gravity Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 If you actually fall, not give up, I don't believe that you are likely to be able to push out with you feet. So, I call bullshit on the spin and run suggestion. I have taken about 15 leader falls of greater than 20 feet on slab. Yes, I have gotten hand rash, butt rash, scraps and bruises. I have indeed put extra wear on my shoes. However, the only time I have broken a bone climbing rock is when I pushed away from the rock (with my hands), lost control of the surface tumbled and my ankle slapped the rock. It was late May in the valley and was September before I got out of my cast...most of a whole season gone. My only suggestions, are a wide stance, keep your heels low and use the entire palms of your hands, especially the heels, not your tips. I too, took a wipper the first time I climbed Misty Beehtoven with no injuries..but I was using the original Fires ( I had just retired my EB's). They just got warm and sticky (for the time) and allowed me to cruise the second pitch in style. Relax, concentrate on the weight balance of each point of contact, move smoothly up. Don't consider falling an option. If one point of contact popping causes you to start a fall (which it may not if you test it smoothly before giving up on the opposing hold), you will start the fall balanced and relaxed and if you maintain that balance and composure during the fall, when the rope contacts you will have minimized you damage. IMO Have fun..I love slab climbing. Quote
dan_e Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 All this talk of friction is getting me jazzed to climb at Static Point again this season! I don't know about all of these suggested techniques on friction falls, but when I climb friction I have the same mind set as when I climb ice and that is DON'T FALL! My only other suggestion is stick to bomber granite when climbing friction (areas like the Apron, Squamish, Static Point, and of course Whitehorse Slabs in New Hampshire). I've climbed at Peshastin and the rock is less than ideal, I don't have any desire to go back. I've seen people do 50' full body slides back east on granite (lots of friction) and it's not pretty, yes lots of skin loss. The worst feeling on friction is what I call the "dreaded crunchies", this is when you put your foot on a small crystal of rock that literally crumbles under your foot! Dan E. Quote
Matt Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dan e: All this talk of friction is getting me jazzed to climb at Static Point again this season! Any word on access to Static Point? Quote
ScottP Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 This might be for another thread, but this one got me thinking about the most run-out of the friction routes I have done. Without a doubt that would have to be Grack Marginal on the Apron in the Valley. I remember counting 9 bolts (including belays) in three long pitches. We managed to place two or three cams as well, but it was pretty grippy being that far out. Quote
Crackhead Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 How about using the North Carolina running belay. Quote
Lambone Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 I've heard about running down the slab on Snake Dyke on half dome. The bolts are run out 50ft. or so at some points. I hear running to the side and penduluming is a better way to go... Quote
chucK Posted February 13, 2002 Posted February 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dan e: The worst feeling on friction is what I call the "dreaded crunchies", this is when you put your foot on a small crystal of rock that literally crumbles under your foot! What about the way the grit slowly builds up on your shoes, step by step, analogous to snow balling up on your crampons? That can get unnerving. Quote
JayB Posted February 13, 2002 Author Posted February 13, 2002 Good suggestions. Sounds like facing the rock and sliding and/or backpedalling is the technique that has worked best for most people. I’ll keep wearing the double Carhartt’s and hoping that I never have to use it. I found a thread on rec.climbing that addressed the same issue and found an account of a fall that sounds a lot like my own, and a description of an interesting slab climbing get-up. One more fall like the last one and I might be sporting an outfit like the one described there myself…. “My road rash is healing nicely. I took a 35 foot slide down a 5.9 josh slab last week and ended up up-side-down myself. I'm not sure how long the fall took - but time certainly compressed and I heard my partner say, "Oh shit." and I started back pedalling and trying to keep my hands off the rock. After about 25 feet the rope or a ledge flipped me over and I landed on my side - whacking my head on the rock. My partner had mentioned that I forgot to put my helmet back on and so I stopped at the first bolt and had him toss it up. Thankfully he was paying attention with the belay and took up some slack. I was shaken (not stirred) and it took a few more days of leading to get my head strong again. The bruises I have on my back, elbow, and calf are pretty huge”. -- Jason Liebgott Northern CA Climbing “I don't think Karl Baba knows this - but I'm certain I saw him in Tuolumne in 1996, doing slabs with a big wall harness, over the ankle style shoes, thick pants and knee pads. I was impressed. I think skidding down on your padded knees and pants with some good shoes on is the way to go. Not many will have the presence of mind to do much else.” - Nate Quote
Figger_Eight Posted February 14, 2002 Posted February 14, 2002 I don't think I've ever seen anyone employ the turn and run strategy successfully. I've seen a bunch of people totally eat shit and start tumbling though. A long slide is better than a long tumble. Quote
Dru Posted February 14, 2002 Posted February 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: I don't think I've ever seen anyone employ the turn and run strategy successfully. I've seen a bunch of people totally eat shit and start tumbling though. A long slide is better than a long tumble. Funny, Ive pinched a loaf and seen a lot of shit tumble down... but never people eat it! Quote
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