cj001f Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 thelawgoddess said: Dru said: once again the Telemarkpyrenees Barabees and so on Euro shops prove the superiority of lower Euro pricing caused by greater competitiveness. umm ... isn't part of that because we're not paying the tax on them by buying from overseas? You mean the non-existent (<4% duties on climbing gear?) Keep on believing what they tell you........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Lot's of talk about supporting local businesses and no follow through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Attitude said: Lot's of talk about supporting local businesses and no follow through. Nice change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Attitude said: Lot's of talk about supporting local businesses and no follow through. whats that mean attitude? as a consumer i am resonsibile to get myself the best price possible. i work for my money and i do not need to see it spent needlessly but getting nickel and dimed. also as a smart consumer i do my research b4 hand to know exactly what i want. i support myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 erik said: Attitude said: Lot's of talk about supporting local businesses and no follow through. whats that mean attitude? as a consumer i am resonsibile to get myself the best price possible. i work for my money and i do not need to see it spent needlessly but getting nickel and dimed. also as a smart consumer i do my research b4 hand to know exactly what i want. i support myself. It's fairly simple. Let's see if you can follow along. Consumer like necro goes into local shop and "does his research." Then he leaves without spending a dime, goes home and orders off the internet. Local store goes bust. REI is left because they don't depend on climbers for their revenue. cc.comers whine because REI isn't a real climbing store. What about this don't you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 i get your scenario, but i dont see the "lot" part. necro is one person, you are attempting to build it up more then what it is. its good and all that you are into your local stores, but others can and do what they want especially if it is concerning their money. i didnt see necro whine about the store closing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 erik said: i get your scenario, but i dont see the "lot" part. necro is one person, you are attempting to build it up more then what it is. Ask Jim Nelson if this is a problem. erik said: i didnt see necro whine about the store closing either. You've whined enough about REI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 I am sad to see Base Camp close it's doors. Many years ago, I was honored when Frank invited me on a "easy" ski day just outside Baker's ski boundaries. Does anyone know if Frank is "retiring"? -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 I'm totally into instant gratification, and tend to spend my money on specific items. I know in advance exactly what I want and won't waste two minutes looking for the "best deal in town". I'd rather spend a few bucks more and get exactly what I want, from whatever vendor is selling said item, then fuck around broadcasting my VISA # all over the internet, and waiting for shit to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 attitude. i dont shope at rei, so i guess that is that. i dont support their business practices. so i most certainly dont see your point this time. and free market economy, the retailer has to protect themselves as well. it is not the consumer's job to do so. i've only been to pro mtn sports once, so unless he posts here i guess you will have to ask him. takw whatever tone you want from my mesage, but since i dont have a disposable income i will always shop where i can get the best deal. MY MONEY, I WILL SPEND IT HOW I SEE FIT. you are the whiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Erik, you're so Rad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mule Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 their website says the liquidation sale starts this friday at 10am and goes through the weekend. is this wednesday a "secret" day for valued customers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formaldehead Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Attitude said: erik said: i get your scenario, but i dont see the "lot" part. necro is one person, you are attempting to build it up more then what it is. Ask Jim Nelson if this is a problem. erik said: i didnt see necro whine about the store closing either. You've whined enough about REI. I bought shit at Jim's store, actually, the one and only time I went in there, because his store doesn't suck dog balls. I also just found out that I am persona non grata at Base Crap. I guess the Owner/Lurker didn't take too kindly to me relating an anecdote about his mysogynistic sales techniques(see above) to the entire Internet. Poor me!! Here's another: When my wife went in to order Twight's "Extreme Climbing" (which they didn't stock at the time)as a gift for me, and without the owner knowing jack shit about me, or her, beforehand, the owner was INSISTANT that she NEEDED to buy "Freedom of the Hills" instead, as it was a better source for me to learn the basic skills that I was lacking. She was beside herself in disbelief, at the incredible arrogance and self-rightiousness she was witnessing, and in her stunned state didn't walk out like she should have. Or how about: When the Owner INSISTED that I needed SILK as a base layer. SILK for Christ's sake! Whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Formaldehead said: Attitude said: Or how about: When the Owner INSISTED that I needed SILK as a base layer. SILK for Christ's sake! the owner must be a queer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkball Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Frank is, indeed, retiring. Tim is a close friend, extremely knowledgeable and one of the coolest people I have ever had the opportunity to rope up with... sorry to see the store close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 erik said: i get your scenario, but i dont see the "lot" part. necro is one person, you are attempting to build it up more then what it is. its good and all that you are into your local stores, but others can and do what they want especially if it is concerning their money. When I worked in computer retail (10-15 years ago) we saw that sort of thing regularly: we'd spend an hour with someone figuring out what exactly they needed (software, printer, PC, whatever) they'd leave with the quote and not come back, and later they'd come in for printer ribbons or diskettes or something, and you'd find out they bought the system someplace else because it was cheaper there. (And, inevidably, the guy would say "but you guys sure know a lot more about it, I really appreciated your help" as though the generous compliment made up for the lost comission.) My favorite was the "consultant" who came in asking me to tell him all about the various modems we had in stock so he could go to his client and advise them which one to buy mail order. If you want to buy something on the Internet, that's great, I do it regularly. But to go in to a retail shop and ask for their help and advice, then leave and buy it from someplace else that doesn't provide the service, then you're shoplifting. The store will go out of business (or they'll be forced to pay bottom dollar for sales help, and you'll get exactly the kind of incompetence you see at REI.) Another retailer down the drain, and another thread here about how "another great climbing shop is going out of business -- golly, why does this keep happening?" I bought a pack this week from PMS, even though I could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere (and saved sales tax) because I wanted to try out the pack, see how it fit, compare the medium and large (Jim said I needed a medium, I said no, I need a long; he was right.) I suppose I should have spent half an hour of his time, then left and ordered it from MEC. Guess that makes me a chump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._Natural Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 If you want to buy something on the Internet, that's great, I do it regularly. But to go in to a retail shop and ask for their help and advice, then leave and buy it from someplace else that doesn't provide the service, then you're shoplifting. Bullshit. It is not a moral thing to do but it isn't stealing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Mr._Natural said: It is not a moral thing to do but it isn't stealing either. What is it, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 But to go in to a retail shop and ask for their help and advice, then leave and buy it from someplace else that doesn't provide the service, then you're shoplifting. I agree that to get advice with the intention of making a purchase based on that advice elsewhere isn’t the right thing to do but to call it shoplifting is the same as calling war terrorism. Mere sloganeering in such a way as to confuse the discussion. If I enter a store as customer I am under no obligation to make my purchase there regardless of the quality of the advice. The short but true answer is that if enough consumers do not value a personal sales advice enough to pay a premium for it when making a purchase then the service will disappear. Consumers may find out that in the long run they made the wrong decision. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._Natural Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Attitude said: Mr._Natural said: It is not a moral thing to do but it isn't stealing either. What is it, then? what pp said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Mr._Natural said: Attitude said: Mr._Natural said: It is not a moral thing to do but it isn't stealing either. What is it, then? what pp said It's the wrong decision, then. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 oh its about as much stealing as sitting in chapters or borders or barnes and noble, reading a book, then walking out without buying the book is stealing. incidentally a great way to wait out rainstorms in red rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpine_Tom Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Dru said: oh its about as much stealing as sitting in chapters or borders or barnes and noble, reading a book, then walking out without buying the book is stealing. incidentally a great way to wait out rainstorms in red rocks. Actually, to my mind, it's more like buying the book, reading it, then returning it. (I know a guy who does that.) What a local retailer offers is the ability to look at the merchandise, try it out, see if it works for you, plus the advice on whether it's right for what you want to use it for. The retailer bundles that service into the (higher) price for the product than you'd pay from some e-tailer. For you to deliberately take that service without the intention to pay for it is, in fact, theft. Perhaps theft of a service (or an implied service) isn't technically shoplifting (my attorney wife is out of town, and these sorts of discussions annoy her anyhow) and couldn't (and shouldn't) be prosecuted, but it certainly is morally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbadon Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Um, yeah, like I'm a totally awesome climber, and I want everybody to know about it, and I'm, um, really into living an ethically Vegan lifestyle, because it's, like, so cruelty-free, and it really pumps my nads that I get to sneer and be condescending to all the evil meat eaters out there. And it's like, it doesn't really matter that I can't tell the difference between ethics and morals, and I get so stoked when I tell other people what's bad for them. So, like when I'm climbing, I use Converse All Stars on rock and snow and stuff, because they're like, all cotton and canvas and synthetic stuff, and it's what I need to live by my personal Vegan ethical code. And then I went down to the store, and told them to rent me some clampons for my Converse All Stars so I could do Mt. Baker, and they like told me I could die or something, and that my All Stars weren't like waterproof or anything, and I would be a serious "handicap." So, like, what does that mean, and like why should it matter as long as I'm living according to my own code of ethics? Everything else is secondary, right? When I insisted they even said there wasn't any kind of clampon to fit my All Stars, like that makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticNacho Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Alpine_Tom said: Actually, to my mind, it's more like buying the book, reading it, then returning it. (I know a guy who does that.) Maybe you should tell him about a mythical place they call..... the library! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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