j_b Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dwayner said: they're are going to have to learn to live with each other. excellent dwayner. how do they get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Put down the fucking egos and cooperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 start on 5th st and go up two blocks to elm and take a right. there is a dead end sign, but right next to it is a small gravel road marked "private drive" go down the road and take another right at the 3rd group of mail boxes. we will be the spot at the end of the road, you should see all of our cars out front! see you soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dwayner said: AlpineK said: I have a hard time seeing Isreal as the agreived party After all the country was full of Palestinians till after WW2 when Jewish people started immigrating in droves and kicking the Palestinians off their land. Sorry, Alpine K....you don't know your history. Jews have been living there for 3000 years. Jerusalem was their capital from about 1000 B.C. until 70 A.D. when the Romans wrecked the city. For centuries, the territory named "Palestine" (derived from the name of some of its other early inhabitants, the Philistines), was ruled by the Ottoman Turks. Jews, Muslims and Christians all lived there though under Islamic rule. Many Jews began to immigrate to the area in the late 1800's while still under Turkish rule which ended in WW1 when it became a British Mandate territory. (The Turks were German allies). The British gave the green light for large-scale Jewish immigration and a great many came in the 1920's and '30's well before the Holocaust. Lots of farms and communes were set up and a lot of desert and swamp lands were reclaimed. And, a lot of property was sold to them by Arab inhabitants as well. The British were actually double-dealing and making contrary promises to both the Arabs and the Jews. The Arabs complained that there were too many immigrants and the Jews (a good many of them European) and the Arabs didn't always get along (cultural, religious issues, land disputes, etc.). The disputes grew and the British were in the middle. More Jews came to the area escaping the Holocaust and as refugees after WWII. After WWII with the creation of the UN, an attempt was made to solve the problem by dividing the Palestine region into two states: an Arab State and a Jewish State. The partition was approved in 1947 (although it didn't get the Arab votes) and in 1948, the state of Israel was declared. A war immediately broke out and Israel was successful in defending itself and ended up with a bit more land at the edges and a lot of Arabs ran away (some of them claim they were run off). The angry "Palestinians" of today live in refugee camps in what would have been the Arab state. Others live in the same land: territories occupied after wars in 1967 and 1973 (West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights). Israel also conquered the Egypt's Sinai Peninsua but returned it after its peace treaty with Egypt (a treaty that cost the brave Sadat his life at the hand of militant assassins.). As difficult as it may seem, I think the Arab-Israeli conflict can be resolved. There will likely always be a certain amount of violence on both sides as there are extremists on both sides that will settle for nothing less than the annihilation of the other. Hey! 20 years ago who could imagine that the Soviet Union would dissolve, Germany would be reunited, and that crappy regine in South Africa would be turned around???? It could happen! I know history well enough. Yeah there's all the biblical stuff; in which 3 major religions have a huge stake in a few square miles. But so what. The reality is that palestinains have been pushed off their land, there farms have been wrecked, etc. They have every right to be upset. I agree that they don't have the right to terrorize Israeli folks. Israel isn't going anywhere, but they do need to back off. Like I said earlier fuck the whole lot of em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 j_b said: excellent dwayner. how do they get there? Stop the violence against Citizens, kids, Woman, and elderly (there is no justification for shooting/blowing away civilians when they are NOT arm…BTW throwing stones, shoes etc should be consider as arm and dangerous and should be punish accordingly even death) persecute and imprison all terrorist (death sentence is ok too…it is not OK to take life and hide under political umbrella killing citizens IS A MURDER!!!!) Now when there is NO MORE DEATHS AROUND …we can start negotiate…put it in perspective PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 AlpineK said: I know history well enough. ... AlpineK said: palestinains have been pushed off their land... there farms have been wrecked, etc. AlpineK said: They have every right to be upset. Israel isn't going anywhere, but they do need to back off. Like I said earlier fuck the whole lot of em THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL May 14, 1948 ERETZ-ISRAEL [(Hebrew) - the Land of Israel, Palestine] was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books. After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom. Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, ma'pilim [(Hebrew) - immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation] and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood. In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country. This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home. The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations. Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland. In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations. On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable. This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State. ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL. WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel". THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel. WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations. WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East. WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream - the redemption of Israel. PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE ALMIGHTY, WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE 5TH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY,1948). David Ben-Gurion Daniel Auster Mordekhai Bentov Yitzchak Ben Zvi Eliyahu Berligne Fritz Bernstein Rabbi Wolf Gold Meir Grabovsky Yitzchak Gruenbaum Dr. Abraham Granovsky Eliyahu Dobkin Meir Wilner-Kovner Zerach Wahrhaftig Herzl Vardi Rachel Cohen Rabbi Kalman Kahana Saadia Kobashi Rabbi Yitzchak Meir Levin Meir David Loewenstein Zvi Luria Golda Myerson Nachum Nir Zvi Segal Rabbi Yehuda Leib Hacohen Fishman David Zvi Pinkas Aharon Zisling Moshe Kolodny Eliezer Kaplan Abraham Katznelson Felix Rosenblueth David Remez Berl Repetur Mordekhai Shattner Ben Zion Sternberg Bekhor Shitreet Moshe Shapira Moshe Shertok * Published in the Official Gazette, No. 1 of the 5th, Iyar, 5708 (14th May, 1948). The British Mandate over Palestine was due to end on May 15, 1948, some six months after the United Nations had voted to partition Palestine into two states: one for the Jews, the other for the Arabs. While the Jews celebrated the United Nations resolution, feeling that a truncated state was better than none, the Arab countries rejected the plan, and irregular attacks of local Arabs on the Jewish population of the country began immediately after the resolution. In the United Nations, the US and other countries tried to prevent or postpone the establishment of a state, suggesting trusteeship, among other proposals. But by the time the British Mandate was due to end, the United Nations had not yet approved any alternate plan; officially, the partition plan was still "on the books." A dilemma faced the leaders of the yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine. Should they declare the country's independence upon the withdrawal of the British mandatory administration, despite the threat of an impending attack by Arab states? Or should they wait, perhaps only a month or two, until conditions were more favorable? Under the leadership of David Ben-Gurion, who was to become the first Prime Minister of Israel, the Va'ad Leumi - the representative body of the yishuv under the British mandate - decided to seize the opportunity. At 4:00 PM on Friday, May 14, the national council, which had directed the Jewish community's affairs under the British Mandate, met in the Tel Aviv Museum on Rothschild Boulevard in Tel Aviv. As Jerusalem was under siege, those members who resided in Jerusalem could not be present, although they kept in constant contact by telephone. The proceedings were not widely publicized before they took place, for fear that the Declaration would be stopped by the British; still, those present included representatives of the Jewish Agency, the Zionist Organization, the Va'ad Leumi, leaders of political parties, cultural personalities, the chief rabbis, the chief of staff of the Haganah and his colleagues and more. Thousands waited outside the hall to hear the Declaration on huge loudspeakers and thousands more listened to the Kol Israel radio station to hear the news in the station's first direct broadcast. David Ben-Gurion read the Declaration of the Establishment of the State to those assembled. As he concluded the reading, he said "Let us accept the Foundation Scroll of the Jewish State by rising," and the entire audience arose. Rabbi Fishman read the traditional blessing "Blessed art thou, O Lord, King of the Universe, Who has kept us alive and preserved us and enabled us to reach this season." The signers put their names to the Declaration. A 13-member Provisional Government and a Provisional Council of 37 members were established; upon the departure of the British Mandatory forces, they would become the provisional government and legislature, respectively, of the state. The historic occasion, marked by joy, took place under the long shadow of upcoming war with the Arab states. The State of Israel was established, but at a terrible price: over 6,000 lives lost. The Declaration is made up of four parts: one discusses the history of the Jewish people, its struggle to renew its national life in its land and the international recognition of its right to do so; the second proclaims independence; the third names the principles of freedom, justice, peace and equality of social and political rights, which are to guide the new state; and the last section calls upon the Arabs of Eretz Israel to preserve peace, extends an offer of peace and good neighborliness to all neighboring states and their peoples, and appeals to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 By historic rights the land we're sitting on is Indian land, so in our case we're the same as the Palestinians. Yet where would we go if a powerfull group of Native Americans got together and started kicking us off land even though we have legal title to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 AlpineK said: Yet where would we go if a powerfull group of Native Americans got together and started kicking us off land even though we have legal title to it. Sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 fuck it - if the Natives kicked us out of North America their fucking casinos would go "big casino" overnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Horseshit Dru. I hear that the Tulalip tribe that own the new casino by Marysville are already struggling with drugs and alcohol abuse among some members. They cleaned up their act for awhile, but now that they have money they're slipping back to their wild ways. It's lookin' like the indians can't handle their liquor or money...imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 death...the pale horseman...el casino grande...lights out baby you thought i was sayin their casinos would do a better business with all us immigrants sent back to asia, africa, south america and europe, huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 trask said: Horseshit Dru. I hear that the Tulalip tribe that own the new casino by Marysville are already struggling with drugs and alcohol abuse among some members. They cleaned up their act for awhile, but now that they have money they're slipping back to their wild ways. It's lookin' like the indians can't handle their liquor or money...imagine that. the biggot brigade shows up ... of course, the problem is no worse than for other minority groups that have gone from poverty to having significant disposable income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 By historic rights the land we're sitting on is Indian land, so in our case we're the same as the Palestinians. Yet where would we go if a powerfull group of Native Americans got together and started kicking us off land even though we have legal title to it. this is the time when the winner_gets_all, might_is_right people show up. of course none of them have lived in a war zone for decades (or all their lives for the young). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Damn, times have changed. I'm no longer middle aged. ---> "Who wants to pony up some money for a fat/middle-aged/no-talent?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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