Portland Rock Gym...sucking at last

[willstrickland]

So what the hell is the deal with PRG these days? I go in a couple days ago to get a new membership, only since I'm leaving PDX soon I just wanted a three month winter deal. Most gyms I've been to offer something like yearly, monthly, and something either quarterly or 6mos. Not the PRG, daily, annual, or monthly only.

My encounter was something like this:

Me:"Ok then, I need a month".PRG: "alright, that comes to $56". Me:"EXCUSE ME? Surely you meant $36 or maybe $46, but f#@$ing $56? Are you givin away a sack of nugs with that?"PRG: "Oh and you need to fill out a new waiver, read and inital the new rules, and if you're leading or belaying you need to take our test and wear this belay cert card on your harness at all times"Me: "What are you guys, the fuckin corporate state now?"PRG:" Make sure you read these (referrring to the rules, one of which states THERE WILL BE NO TEACHING OF BELAYING BY ANYONE OTHER THAN STAFF)"Me: "yeah, whatever dude I don't tie in in here anyway, place is too damn crowded. Your rates are a rip-off, tell Gary (the owner) that I hope he makes alot of money...you guys are joinin the realm of the corporate bullshit. So what if I teach someone how to belay, they still have to take your test so why do you care...I know the answer...you want them to PAY you to teach them. Yeah also tell Gary that if I lived anywhere other than Southeast I'd train somewhere else, the only reason I'm here is the proximity to my house, and that for $56 a month with as many people as I see in here he should be making hand over fist money or needs to go to business school"

So I'll still train there until after I get back from Vegas, after that fuck 'em. I don't care about the belay cards and that crap, but the rates are too high, the place is too crowded, and there's only one crack in the place (other than all the plumber's crack). So piss off PRG, I'll be sending my bros somewhere else to train.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Used to be a cool place a long time ago. Bummer.

[Heinouscling]

You're right about the yupsters, but they stay out of the climbing area more or less. At least on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Most of them are too fat to get up anything anyhow and they are too busy keeping their little shits in control. The monthly rates really suck if you just climb. I fill out a comment card every week suggesting "climbing only" rates. I'm sure they are just laughing and chucking them into the shit bin by now. Greedy little bastards!

[imorris]

I checked out sportsnation since I work across I-5 in L.O. but the cost was ridiculous (I don't need an indoor soccer field and stairmasters). So I have a PRG membership by default, living in N.E. pdx. I go late Tues/Thurs, so there's only around 800 people there. I haven't had too much of a problem late in the evening, except when someone borrows the mat under you when you are bouldering. Fun times.

You should be skiing now anyways.-iain

[Ibex]

Will,

You should really check out Stoneworks www.belay.com if i remember right. They are not as big as the other places, but the owner is very friendly (done lots of trad/mtneering) and the route setters are really fantastic. They really do a great job of changing the routes and keeping it from becoming boring. I think it was only $40/mo too.

The only downside of it is that they have a junior climbing team (that is disgustingly good), so there tends to be a presence of 15 yr olds there. I never found it to be a problem, but some people did. When I left PDX they were expanding and putting up more (and taller) routes, I used the place mainly for their excellent bouldering.

Either way it is way cheaper, and a nicer environment. I went to PRG and was not really impressed, especially after I paid something rediculous like $13 for a couple hours of climbing.

Cheers

Shawn

[Heinouscling]

As Ibex mentioned, StoneWorks has an expansion plan underway. It seems to be taking f*cking forever though. My partner and I will be seriously taking a look at StoneWorks once the expansion is complete. I cringe whenever I pay that ClubSport monthly fee knowing that I'm not even using the swimming pool and all that other crap. They do serve , which we all know is more important to any serious climber. The huge wall and "no crowds" environment is hard to give up though. Cute chicks too, as Private CaveGirl so helpfully stated.

-Heinous

[Walter_Burt]

Sounds familiar. I've been going to PRG on and off since 1991 - mostly for convenience since I'm in SE too. I've never cared for the "Gods Gift to Climbing" attitude of the management, though the attitude of MOST of the people behind the desk has improved in the last couple of years compared to the mid-90s. Crowding and the fact that a lot of the folks at PRG have always had a "tude" has driven me and my climbing buddies out of there except when desperate. That and the danger of "chalkosis" from the piss-poor ventilation and plethora of euro-chalker posers. As far as the belay certification/training crap goes... sounds like the insurance companies are taking their toll, in addition to maybe PRG looking for more instructing $. Speaking of: I wouldn't trust most their instructors in the mid-90s to train anyone to belay - I saw too many folks nearly deck inside and at the local crags while belayed by some of those guys - some slack to keep things dynamic is one thing, but lots of slack when the leader is at the first bolt coupled with inattention seemed to be common. Probably different now though.

The management(Robert)at Stoneworks is great, as is the bouldering. Even the disgustingly good juniors there tend to be grounded. Club Sports has nice facilities, but is ridiculously expensive, to far out of the way for anyone in town and can be a zoo also. There have been a number of rumors going around about another gym coming town. Usually takes a couple of years for the rumors to gel into reality around here though.

Grin and bear it.

[dharmabum]

I too have experienced all the negatives mentioned above. I was actually treated badly by a dick who worked at PRG and OMC, in both establishments.

If you want to climb, and beat the price, Mt Hood Community College has a 22' rockwall, and it costs (I think) $1.50 to climb from 3-8:30 daily. There is a certain amount of BS to deal with there as well, as most of the "staff" are volunteers who have been belaying about an hour. It's attitude free, cheap, and a hell of a lot closer to East County.

Also, if you know anyone who wants to get cheap instruction, MHCC offers a beginning, intermediate, and advanced course. They are $35 each. The Beg is 10 wks, Int is 5 wks with a two day field trip to Smith. The instructors have varying degrees of experience.

Uhh, I should admit Im one of the instructors.

[Heinouscling]

So when I first moved to Portland about 3 years ago, I checked out PRG and also a place that used to be called SportsNation in Tigard (now called ClubSport). I heard PRG got stuffy and crowded and I noticed its walls were a bit puny compared to SportsNation. I also heard a lot of snobby dickheads climb there (not everybody, of coarse). Then again, I heard SportsNation can fill up with little shit kids. I think the rates are comparable but SportsNation is a bit more at 68 bucks a month. A rip for me since I only climb there but it motivates me to climb a lot. So I went with SportsNation and climb there Tuesdays and Thursdays when it seems there are mostly climbers and less shits there. The route quality has improved dramatically over the last couple of years. I am also running into more and more PRG transplants. Hmmm, maybe PRG is sucking more and SportsNation is sucking less.

-Heinous

[Cpt.Caveman]

I liked SportNation too. Chicks there and a full on gym as well. Spendy though. PRG going down da tubes?

[willstrickland]

Way spendy, the "intial membership" fee is like $100 or something, then monthly, I checked it out. Nice facility, but filled with westside yupsters

[qjackson]

I am a member of the prg and have been for over 3 years. I agree with a lot of what is being said about the gym. Too crowded,too small, ventilation sucks, and yes there is some atitude with some staff and gym members. And yes, if a new gym opened up close to this location I would switch in a heartbeat. But I have also had some great experiences at prg. I learned to climb there and have met some great people and great climbing partners there that I hope to have life-long contact with. Yes the place can be a royal pain, but it is also what you make of it. When I go climb there, I expect it to be crowded, chalky, and sometimes snobish. But that does not keep me from havin a good time and going for beers afterwards. So until a better gym comes along or I win the lottery and can open my own gym, I'm stuck there with the rest of you. Keep climbing!

[willstrickland]

I think there are enough common problems that we (those who use that gym) should all fill out comment forms on you next visit. Or, alternatively, go when Gary is there and relate the issues. I'll be filling out a form tonight.

[PDXClimber]

I am a member at Club Sport gym. Its much too expensive and a long way to drive, but its hard to give up the membership since indoor gym sessions are a great workout alternative for rainy evenings in Portland during the winter.

If someone were to open a gym on the West Side of Portland, many of us would join in a minute.

[b-rock]

Had memberships at PRG, Club Sports (was Sports Nation), and Stoneworks. PRG is close to home and has great routes, but the hardcore there are a little much to take, crowded, stuffy too. Stoneworks is extremely friendly with a lot of thought put into their routes, but small and full of kids. Club Sports, where I climb now (company got a corporate discount here, many facilities besides climbing) basically sucks for routes but has amazing potential, mostly because its so huge. Lots of chumps and kids, but a handful of talented climbers train here. Very expensive ($200 to join, $68/month) but you get much more than just the walls.

[bobinc]

Just moved to Portland and heard PRG was moving to a new spot. And couldn't believe my good luck... it's only 1/2 mile from where I now live.

 

But... not a slam dunk. Apparently the old gym was overcrowded and overchalked. The new one appears spacious on the outside, and it looks like the TR and lead walls are adequate. Don't care so much about bouldering, but it looked cramped enough in there that you might want to keep an eye out.

 

But... very thin free weight selection and absolutely no aerobic equipment. The very friendly guy at the front said they were bringing over more weights but had no plans for aerobic equipment.

 

I know this is a climbing gym and not the Y, but I think it's a bit much to charge $49/mo (if you use electronic withdrawal) or more for the service. I base this in part on comparing PRG to Vertical World in Seattle, where I paid membership for a few years. The current monthly rate there is about $40 if you pay by the month and there is at least an adequate set up of aerobic machines, free weights, and specialty training items for spot training.

 

PRG has put aside space for a yoga studio, which is great, but they seem to have given up other valuable space for showers that could have been used for training. True, VW kinda dares you to take a shower (one stall, unheated), but if I'm paying for a membership, I'd like to be able to get a lot accomplished in one visit rather than have to buy a second gym membership.

 

I am particularly sensitive to this right now because I am trying to rehabilitate a knee injury and therefore can't just go out and run in the rain like in past years. Still, to pay 25% more than a better equipped gym in the bigger city seems out of whack.

 

Is it just that they have to amortize the cost of a new building there? I don't know the history (whether they did a gut remodel on an existing space or demoed and built new. It looks new). It seems odd to have built something new given they are right along Sandy, which appears to have many 000,000s of square feet of warehouse space going begging.

 

Some history from the PDX locals would help me to understand some of the decision-making. Thanks.

[willstrickland]

I think the inside pics that are up on the website are still

from the old gym. It sounds like you've been inside the new one?

 

I think it should be a big improvement on the previous situation. First, the monthly rates are cheaper. Second, the space is bigger. It would be nice to have more

"regular" gym equipment there, after all you can do Yoga in your living room, my living roomm doesn't have a stairmaster or squat rack though. But the old gym had neglible free weights and no aerobic equipment either.

 

The rates compared to other gyms and in light of the facilities was my biggest beef. I didn't care about attitude and I can deal with the chalk (and it was REAL bad in the old PRG, probably because of inadequate ventilation and the fact that they never cleaned off the surfaces of the top of the walls/rafters/etc). The free weights were also in an area so small and congested (it was where everyone changed shoes and taped up and where the storage cubicles were) that it was almost dangerous to do a bench press workout.

 

Gary seemed a little miffed after I posted the original post in this thread. Confronted me as I entered the gym one day shortly after that, it was kinda funny because I was IRIE. We had a lengthy conversation about his two year plus search for a new building, the realities of the gym as a business, recently losing one of his key employees (Martin, who was a very nice dude, and basically his operations manager, moved back to Texas). Still, I told him I wrote what I wrote and I'd stick by it, his rates were too high and the gym too crowded and chalky.

 

I'm glad to see that he finally got a new place, and I'm sure it's a huge burden off his shoulders. I'm also stoked for the climbers who live in PDX proper, a new gym to train in! Cool!

 

I never thought there was bad attitude there...every gym has a few jackasses, but I found the regulars there to be very laidback, fun to train with. Also found that the route setters were above average...of course that changes with the seasons.

 

 

[bobinc]

I have no complaints with the way they did the walls (textured*, nice and high, they actually have cracks, etc); it's just that the place isn't really full service vs what I am used to.

 

There is really nowhere to put the other training equipment. It apparently was never intended to be installed. True, it would add to the amount to be financed, and equipment in a rock gym gets dusty faster but that's what you have staff for.

 

I do think the rates are high. This is based on living in the Puget Sound for 15+ years with its overheated real estate market yet paying less for the rock gym there (even though it also moved and added floor space during that time).

 

It's too late now to change anything at PRG and I will probably spend the money to join, given the realities of PNW climbing, but I just thought I'd try to understand the decision-making process over there.

 

*Although the staff made a peculiar comment when I asked about texture: something along the lines of texture being undesirable because your shoes wear out faster. Hmmm.... I like the texture because it enables stemming and edging on the harder climbs. I don't mind paying my local resoler and extra few bucks per year for the privilege, either.

[bobinc]

Also, to clarify, the monthly rate I am using is based on an annual contract where you pay by electronic transfer every month. If you pay up front, you get a month free.

 

If you just walk in and pay by the month, the new rate is $67 vs $59 from before (based on Will's info).

[willstrickland]

HOLY SMOKES! $67 !?!! Is there a 6 month or quarterly option or still just daily/monthly/annually. I paid something around $400 when I had an annual there, and that seems to be typical of rates around the country, but $67 for a month? That's jacked up if you only want to train inside during the winter. For $67 bucks I'd expect at least some cardio equipment and decent freeweights. I know cardio equipment is pricey, but damn, freeweights are relatively cheap and last forever. I've lifted in freeweight pits since I was 15 and I think I've seen one busted barbell and two broken plates (a 2.5 and a 5lb that cracked) in all that time.

 

What are the rates in the Seattle gyms? V-World and Stone Gardens...right?

[bobinc]

If you just want a month, it's $67.

 

If you want to sign up for a year and pay every month automatically, it is $49/mo.

 

If you prepay for a year, you get a month free, so it's about $45/mo.

 

I don't think they offer quarterly or 6 mo breaks.

 

The gym I was referring to in Seattle is Vertical World. Unless they have raised rates recently, the cost is $40/mo (+tax) for the annual contract with monthly electronic withdrawal. The gym is bigger and has more amenities than PRG; it doesn't have a dedicated yoga room and the shower area is smaller and unheated.

[ChrisT]

Why don't you just try a 10/10 pass (10 studio visits and 10 climbing visits/ for $199 (good for 3 months) and see if you like it. Ask Santa.

[boatskiclimbsail]

Gotta throw in my $0.02. I agree the rates are stiff, fortunately, my year membership doesn't end till next July so I won't see the rate increase until then. Everyone who went to the new PRG in its first week was hit with crowgind for a very good reason - it was FREE for that week. Who wouldn't want to show up and who would expect it to not be crowded. As for the rates, yes they are stiff but not much worse than Stoneworks or CS. The climbing area compared to the old PRG is GIGANTIC and the bouldering area is also quite extensive, though a little cramped when the place gets full of people. I usually roll in about 8 or 9pm and since the free week has ended, run into no real crowding problems. Frankly when I moved here and found a freeweight bench at the PRG (which is as extensive as a set of freeweights can be short of a squat rack) I was surprised. As I understand it, there will be more training machines coming.

 

In short, I am not looking forward to paying more money for the new gym, but it is certainly more bang for your buck than the old gym was. When they iron out all the kinks in the brand new building I'm sure things will get a lot better.

[Lambone]

Will,

 

After being on the other end of that stick for almost three years, I can say that it is no fun for either party. You want to hook up climbing bros as much as you can, cause they are just fellow dirbags looking for a good pump. But then you have this thing called a boss who actually wants you to charge money and shit...what to do?

 

As far as all the logistical shit like belay tests and waivers, just get over it and sign the damn thing. Gyms have rules for reasons, so that people who tend to do stupid things and get themselves and others hurt, maybe won't...but they do anyway.

 

Do you really expect that Gyms allow non-proffesional instructors to teach in their facility? One minute you've giot guides trying to get their clients ready for Rainier, the next minute you have some meathead trying to get his hot date ready for the belay test. Sure there are circumstances when it might be ok, probly in your case...but you can't pick and choose...ya got to make a rule and stick to it. Otherwise it is not a fair policy. If ya wan't respect as a proffesional ya gotta stick to it...othersise they start calling you Stoner Gardens...

 

At least you have a good gym to go to...you should check out the Medford rock gym sometime! Every hold is one of three different types of metolious jug, and the routes are set by 10 year old girls. The gym has potential but the holds and routes just fail to get me psyched...I'm either going to need to go in and set my own, or build a garage gym, probably the later....so fuckin hard to keep in shape in the winter...

[texplorer]

I totally agree Will,

Unfortunately I'm joinin the damned place but maybe not for a month or so because the f'ers are so expensive I have to wait until I get a job to start.