Looking for feedback on Grivel Products

[mammut_rep]

fleblebleb said:

I bought one of those little black packs, the ice pack I think, it looked like a great design in the store. Then I put about five pounds in it and walked home, 20 minutes or so, god that thing was a bitch to carry. It hurt my back. I returned it.

 

The frame sheet was angled so that the lower end of it dug right into the small of my back, instead of lying flat. It needs some fixing, needs a little S-curve to it or maybe the pack needs to be sown a bit different at the bottom, or something. What do I know.

 

I have five 360s, those things are the shit especially the stubby. Racking them is shit-ty though, can only fit two on a biner really. Two 360s and two $18 Charlet Moser with a fixed, simple hanger rack great together and make up a sweet ice rack for alpine stuff.

 

Methinks Grivel should sell the screw with a simple hanger too, for much cheaper than the 360. It wouldn't cut out of 360 sales, there is no beating that swivel thingy where you really need it and nobody is going to spend $60 on it if they don't need it. Cheaper screws with that reverse angle thread design would be nice.

 

Might want to see about that $60+tax too, I got mine from Europe for $30+shipping. Why do we have to pay double over here again? I forget.

 

The price on the Jorasses axe is ridiculous. Double the European price. Send me a PM, reasonable price, I'll buy a 60 cm from you.

 

Anyways. Other than that pack, and the prices (), Grivel is pretty much the best stuff around. I don't buy it though, because the markups are too much over the European prices.

 

 

Can't say much about the packs yet. Haven't even put one on my back yet. I'm glad you like the 360's. Personally, I think they are the second best screw on the market, behind the BD Turbo Express Screws. Grivel used to sell the Extra Bite screw, which had a simpler hanger, but they competed directly with the regular BD screw. The BD screws out sold the Grivels, so we don't do them any more. The Euro pricing is still a bit of a problem and we are still working on a solution.

[mammut_rep]

JoshK said:

Just curious if anybody knows if BD has a patent on the express screw handle? I wonder why nobody has copied it. It's my favorite screw cause it strikes a good balance between rackability and fast placement.

 

BD does hold the patent on their screw handle design.

 

[mammut_rep]

sobo said:

I don't know if BD has a patent, but OR has come up with some after-market "coffee grinder" style screw-ons that fit older BD and Smiley screws. I bought some, tried them, and then took them off my screws. Lots of fumbly problems. Hard to rack, couldn't get the bottom cap screw to stay tight, coffee grinder was constantly hanging up the draw/rope, etc.

 

Then a bunch of Canadiennes in Canmore told me about some testing they'd done where something or other would happen in a fall and I'd be killed. FWIW, I believed them (or thought that all the other problems I was having with these things was causing me too much grief) and took them off. The Expresses don't do that b/c they can be folded up against the hanger, but then I guess you would already have known that...

 

I tend to suffer thread drift... sorry.

 

You mean the Omega Pacific screw handles? I believe they are designed to break off at about 200 lbs. like the BD's. Even though the BD's fold up, falling ice and snow can cause them to open back up again (first hand experience). But if you fall and the rope catches on it, it will break off pretty easily.

 

 

[mammut_rep]

iceguy said:

Rambo Comps =

2F =

Girls = (oh, wrong thread; sorry)

 

 

 

Ooooh, I have 200 posts now; I am so cool.

 

Talking about girls on this thread is fine by me.

 

[mammut_rep]

Beck said:

grivel could make universal antibott plates that fit any makers crampon (trim to fit or something)

 

the Jorasses is a great t-rated tool, also the compact third, very nice item. I'm thinking the compact third is a grivel, trying to remember...

 

not making a ultralight aluminum cramp is a serious oversight, given the current US "golite" craze- also, an autolocking stitch plate would be nice, they are out there, but not popular here.

 

 

 

Grivel does do a lightweight aluminum crampon called the G-10 Light. If you did design a "universal" snow plate what shape would it be and how would it attach? There seems to be too many different shapes and curves to crampons now that it would be really difficult to design something that would work for all crampons.

 

[mammut_rep]

jhamaker said:

Other than at the hard-ware store, where do I find spacers to convert my Rambo's into mono-points?

 

I love the crampon leash, I move the suckers over to other crampons at every oportunity.

 

You can order them through a local dealer.

 

[mammut_rep]

How many out there have used the Tech Wings? How do they compare to the BD Cobra, BD Viper, Charlet Moser Quark, and other tools?

 

[Beck]

the antibott plate would be bigger than a cramp footprint, there would be slots at front and rear to hold retainer clamps, maybe some for the side rails of the forefoot, and the user would fit them to rails, then trim to fit. Think about it, it's not that hard.

 

sorry, i forgot about the g-10 light. And you forgot to mention Marmot as a store that can help climbers with special orders of grivel products, mr. new mammut rep, whoever you are.

 

[genepires]

I got a old pair of super coumeyer ( straight shaft 57 cm) and grey rambo bent grip tools. This has seemed like the best alpine ice set up and the new generation of tools have swung away from a simple straight shaft. Nothing available today seems to be as good as my old set up for alpine ice.

Got the g-12 which is a great alpine ice crampon.

 

I like that the grivel tools have changed over the years but the pick attachment system hasn't. Is there any plans to change the attachment system and make it hard to find picks for our old tools?

 

 

[BigWave]

Congrats on the new job mammut- The Alpine Experience is also a Grivel dealer, they're down in Olympia and have a slew of Grivel stuff. Alp Wings rock. But the angle of the spike takes some getting used too on hard glacial ice. It will skid off if you don't pay attention, easily modified too. Props to BB for the leash design- I guess BD just couldn't recognize a great thing when they saw it.

[dbb]

I own several grivel products, and generally like them a lot with a few exceptions:

 

Grivel G10 crampons- There are excellent all around crampons especially because the front points are "pointed" like the 2Fs, love the plastic new-matic strap on. my gripe is that they come out of the box so dull that it's difficult to get all the points sharp without taking off a serious amount of metal. I'd imagine the typical market for these is general mountaineering where people are just climbing snow and don't want a razor sharp set of points. Still, it's a lot of work to get a "working pair", especially now that BD is selling a simmilar product that I've heard (always a great qualifier) come sharp out of the box.

 

Rambo Dual pt. crampons - great crampons again, I really like the adjustable heel clip. It is great for fine adjustment between really small leathers and the beefy plastic rands. A good thing to have in this leather craze... However, I don't know why there isn't a simple conversion kit for monopoints. I know you can order a mono point kit that has a special mono front point (used to have that on my old pair), but the dual points are perfectly fine as monos. I climbed on them all last season that way after making some custom spacers. It seems like a 10-15$ bolt and spacer kit would be a real plus (especially in this mono-pt craze).

 

Air tech racing Axe - Havent picked up my old mountain axe since getting this. Totally love it. The only thing I would change (as others have mentioned) is the spike. A nice sharp steel spike to match the head would really round out the tool. I realize that this would add weight, thus making the BD Raven Pro look even better to the "go light" crowd, but I think the added function would make up for it by eliminating the axe's only detraction.

 

360 screws - Again, great design, and the marketing actually matches the function of the small hanger fitting in small spots. Racking is an issue, especially when mixing with standard hangers, so why not come up with some snazzy racking device esp for the 360?

 

Also, I really like my Mammut Barriovox transciever. I think the fact that it has the best and most versitle harness system out there, and that it's like 1/2 the size and weight of other transcievers, has been lost on the US market. It was also pretty hard to find locally, FF is the only one I found who had em.

[fern]

I want to know how much the Tech Wings weigh. I have seen

lots of different ## in different catalogs. Also does the

hammer weigh the same as the adze?

[Sphinx]

[fern]

izzat yours?

 

wanna sell me the adze?

[Sphinx]

Nope, but I would if it was. I found it on mtncommunity.org. It broke being used to lead a WI2!

[fleblebleb]

mammut_rep said:

fleblebleb said:

Why do we have to pay double over here again? I forget.

[snip]

Grivel is pretty much the best stuff around. I don't buy it though, because the markups are too much over the European prices.

 

The Euro pricing is still a bit of a problem and we are still working on a solution.

 

Ugh, grr, aaargh, NO NO NO NO NO, you got this completely backwards.

 

Euro pricing works great.

 

North American pricing is the problem.

 

Preventing European merchants from selling Grivel gear in the States isn't a "solution". It's just nonsense.

 

Instead of marking Grivel stuff up to BD prices, SELL IT AT EURO PRICES or as close as you can get. You'd own the whole market.

[eric8]

fleblebleb said:

mammut_rep said:

fleblebleb said:

Why do we have to pay double over here again? I forget.

[snip]

Grivel is pretty much the best stuff around. I don't buy it though, because the markups are too much over the European prices.

 

The Euro pricing is still a bit of a problem and we are still working on a solution.

 

Ugh, grr, aaargh, NO NO NO NO NO, you got this completely backwards.

 

Euro pricing works great.

 

North American pricing is the problem.

 

Preventing European merchants from selling Grivel gear in the States isn't a "solution". It's just nonsense.

 

Instead of marking Grivel stuff up to BD prices, SELL IT AT EURO PRICES or as close as you can get. You'd own the whole market.

 

Werd, I would not have bought my alpine wings if i didn't get them from europe. Don't be dump and copy bd.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2003 by eric8

[Sphinx]

Eric8, I doubt that you have any idea what the market is doing. Saying BD is being dumb (I assume that's what you meant) is ridiculous. BD gear costs just as much as Grivel, as long as you buy from REI or FF or Marmot, etc. I rarely buy gear at market price, I wait for sales. I agree that the US prices shouldn't be twice the Euro prices, but blaming BD for the entire market is just plain stupid.

[eric8]

I was refering to BD not allowing european companies to sale gear to the us at euro prices. Or marking the gear up because the company sells in the us. Don't believe me go to barrabes or where ever look at the price for any bd tool and compare to a similar grivel or cassin model.

[fleblebleb]

 

Err, Eric, you have it a bit backwards too...

 

Hey Mammut rep it's a real shame BD won't let you guys lower those prices

[slothrop]

dbb said:

Also, I really like my Mammut Barriovox transciever. I think the fact that it has the best and most versitle harness system out there, and that it's like 1/2 the size and weight of other transcievers, has been lost on the US market. It was also pretty hard to find locally, FF is the only one I found who had em.

 

I got my Barryvox at PMS. It's pretty snazzy.

[mammut_rep]

Beck said:

the antibott plate would be bigger than a cramp footprint, there would be slots at front and rear to hold retainer clamps, maybe some for the side rails of the forefoot, and the user would fit them to rails, then trim to fit. Think about it, it's not that hard.

 

sorry, i forgot about the g-10 light. And you forgot to mention Marmot as a store that can help climbers with special orders of grivel products, mr. new mammut rep, whoever you are.

 

I fail to understand why anyone would want to buy a pair of "universal" snow plates for their crampons when nearly every manufacturer makes snow plates specific for their own crampons. I would guess that the "universals" wouldn't fit nor secure themselves to the crampon as well as the ones specific to that crampon. Also, I would think that if it were a legit idea, someone would have produced them by now.

[mammut_rep]

dbb said:

I own several grivel products, and generally like them a lot with a few exceptions:

 

Grivel G10 crampons- There are excellent all around crampons especially because the front points are "pointed" like the 2Fs, love the plastic new-matic strap on. my gripe is that they come out of the box so dull that it's difficult to get all the points sharp without taking off a serious amount of metal. I'd imagine the typical market for these is general mountaineering where people are just climbing snow and don't want a razor sharp set of points. Still, it's a lot of work to get a "working pair", especially now that BD is selling a simmilar product that I've heard (always a great qualifier) come sharp out of the box.

 

Rambo Dual pt. crampons - great crampons again, I really like the adjustable heel clip. It is great for fine adjustment between really small leathers and the beefy plastic rands. A good thing to have in this leather craze... However, I don't know why there isn't a simple conversion kit for monopoints. I know you can order a mono point kit that has a special mono front point (used to have that on my old pair), but the dual points are perfectly fine as monos. I climbed on them all last season that way after making some custom spacers. It seems like a 10-15$ bolt and spacer kit would be a real plus (especially in this mono-pt craze).

 

Air tech racing Axe - Havent picked up my old mountain axe since getting this. Totally love it. The only thing I would change (as others have mentioned) is the spike. A nice sharp steel spike to match the head would really round out the tool. I realize that this would add weight, thus making the BD Raven Pro look even better to the "go light" crowd, but I think the added function would make up for it by eliminating the axe's only detraction.

 

360 screws - Again, great design, and the marketing actually matches the function of the small hanger fitting in small spots. Racking is an issue, especially when mixing with standard hangers, so why not come up with some snazzy racking device esp for the 360?

 

Also, I really like my Mammut Barriovox transciever. I think the fact that it has the best and most versitle harness system out there, and that it's like 1/2 the size and weight of other transcievers, has been lost on the US market. It was also pretty hard to find locally, FF is the only one I found who had em.

 

 

The points on the G-10's (and G-12's) aren't that sharp for a reason. If you sharpen your points too much, you will just dull them out right away anyways. So, you're removing metal faster than is necessary. Points don't have to be razor sharp. Your body weight is enough to get them to penetrate.

 

The spacer kit is a good idea, but with the G-14 on the market now, fewer and fewer Rambos are geing sold. Plus, the G-14 comes with a spacer kit to change it from mono to dual or dual to mono.

 

You are not the first to mention the spike on the Air Tech Racing. However, like you say, it would make the axe heavier and we like the weight as it is.

 

I'll mention the racking device to Belcourt. He basically designed the BD Ice Clipper when he was there, so he may be able to come up with something for the 360's.

 

As for the Barryvox, Feathered Friends carries them, but so does Second Ascent, Pro Mountain Sports, and Marmot in Bellevue. Glad you like it.

 

[erik]

mammut rep, i personally know that there is NOT $118 worth of materials and design put into these axes.

 

i think the overall cost of all climbing gear is too much and it sickening that companies lead people to be believe that those are the costs.

 

look at cars, if we priced cars like climbing equip well then that $20k subaru is now like $200k. there is soo much more material science, engineering, marketing and shit that goes into them, so that justification is b.s. and look at imported vehicles they pay the duty upon entering the U.S. and yes they are priced within the means of people.

 

climbing may be a leisure activity, but that gives no right to allow US companies to lead in the price gouging.

 

i hope MADROCK shoes takes off and that 510 and the rest of those over pricing people get a clue!!!

 

climbing gear should be atleast 50% cheaper.

 

thanks for interacting with us! shows good on your company!

 

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