genepires Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Was up on outerspace this saturday and I noticed two nice rappel anchors to the climbers left of outerspace. One being out about 15 feet on library ledge and the other about 50 meters (maybe 60m !) down from this other anchor. These are shiny new bolts with a couple of links, modern fancy rappel setups. Anybody know if there are more new anchors that will get one to the ground? Or after these two bolted station, normal old anchors (trees and chockstones) are used? Are there anchors to get from the top of the climb to library ledge? Does one need two ropes? Or are there more anchors than I saw allowing one single line to be used? BTW, the climbing on snow creek wall is pretty good right now. (outerspace and orbit known good, others looked good) We were climbing in tshirts when the sun was out. There is a big snow patch on the top which does melt off and bring water down, but it is way off to the side of outerspace. The route was dry except for the last short pitch on big chicken heads. In the afternoon, maybe the melt off will go in the hand cracks. The snow probably won't be there by next weekend. Was cool kicking steps with rock shoes in it though. (not) The approach is fine with some snow in the valley bottom. We had regular tennies and did OK with wet feet. Once again, I doubt the majority of the snow will be there next week. Very little snow (only near the base of the wall) on the walk down descent to the base. thanks gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Seems like a long overdue development to me if there is such a route in place, as it would certainly make things easier on the foliage and diminish the erosion onthe descent route, not to mention making the trip down a whole lot more pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 but now the parties that get caught by darkness and rap down will not leave booty in the form of 6 2-cam anchors!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 The bolts I saw left of the 2 main crack pitches of Outerspace late last fall I assumed were "new" anchors to the face climbs on the upper part of the Shield. Looked to me to be 50 meters apart and none of the typical nylon cabage around them to mark a rap anchor. New bolts occasionally strung out between them too for the weak of heart. If anyone does rap off and uses those pieces I would like to hear the end comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 (edited) Should have done my homework first and checked out a guidebook. Looks like the anchor on library ledge are for inconoclast. There is another new anchor straight down that are not for iconoclast. With a brief look around, I didn't see any bolts between these anchors so I assumed it was a rappel route. If it is a route, then it would be a pucker route as I didn't see any bolts with the quick glance I gave. Slinging the chicken heads? If the anchors don't go to the ground, then it would be a worthy, karma building, venture to finish the anchors to the ground. Anyone interested in helping me? Edited March 31, 2003 by genepires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle_Tricky Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Last summer there was a fairly heated discussion about the possibility of a rap route on SCW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Where would you end up after rapping off of the last set of anchors that's currently in place? Would extending the line beneath the lowermost anchors put you on the ledge at the end of the second pitch of Remorse or thereabouts? I suspect that even though a rap line would reduce the clusterage on the route and considerably diminish climber impact, it'd probably be fairly controversial and invite megasprayage. Kudos to you for taking the intitiative to bring up the issue - seems worth discussing, at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I'm sorry: The LAST thing SCW needs is a rap route. If you can't get up, or off a low angle, 600 foot crag in a day, you probably shouldn't be up there. As for the erosion perpetuation argument, almost 40 years of walk-off descents has made how much of an impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Well, I read through the old thread that U.T. posted and thought that there were some good arguments for keeping the SCW the way it is posted over there. TimL made an especially good point about such routes serving as a good primer for longer, more remote routes where there is no easy retreat. In any event, the reason that I thought that a rap route would be worth considering was not because it would make the route easier/safer/less commiting, etc - but because it would make things easier on the landscape. As far as the landscape is concerned, the erosion on the descent route is not as bad as I've seen elsewhere - but there was quite a bit more damage than you'd have if there was single trail down the thing rather than everyone taking whatever route they please back down to the base. IMO a few discrete signs that keep the foot traffic concentrated on a single route down would be an easy way to reduce climber impact in to the area. It's not like anyone's going to get lost or benighted on the descent, so I can't really see how such additions would take any of the "adventure" out of the trip back down to the base. But if people think that maintaining whatever meager adventure/challenge is involved in the making the descent is more important than mitigating our impact on the place, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Bolting ethics aside... I saw those rap anchors last year, and was perplexed. Why anyone would choose to risk getting their ropes stuck on some chickenhead or in a crack just to avoid a 30 minute 3rd-4th class descent (which isn't that bad) is beyond me. I just don't like rapping unless its absolutely necesary, to many people get messed up that way, the stats don't lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ScottP said: I'm sorry: The LAST thing SCW needs is a rap route. If you can't get up, or off a low angle, 600 foot crag in a day, you probably shouldn't be up there. As for the erosion perpetuation argument, almost 40 years of walk-off descents has made how much of an impact? Thank you, ScottP. Lamebone said: I saw those rap anchors last year, and was perplexed. Why anyone would choose to risk getting their ropes stuck on some chickenhead or in a crack just to avoid a 30 minute 3rd-4th class descent (which isn't that bad) is beyond me. Thank you, Lambone. That walk-off is much less trouble than a rappel could ever be. Also, if you make it to Library Ledge on Outer Space, you're probably going to summit. Why make a mess up there? The bolts that folks are mentioning were placed about the time of the DDD retrofit, by the same party (if I remember correctly). The Edge of Space route apparently got some new bolts in the process and is an excellent lead according to the guy who cleaned it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I think that the clean up of Edge of Space was done before the DDD fiasco and that they were not done by the same party as DDD. In fact I believe it was done before the creation of this website. Pope’s info is correct that Edge of Space is a much more enjoyable lead now that you are no longer falling on 15 year old ¼” bolts. As practical matter, it is much easier to walk around rather than rap. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Peter_Puget said: I think that the clean up of Edge of Space was done before the DDD fiasco and that they were not done by the same party as DDD. In fact I believe it was done before the creation of this website. Pope’s info is correct that Edge of Space is a much more enjoyable lead now that you are no longer falling on 15 year old ¼” bolts. As practical matter, it is much easier to walk around rather than rap. PP I seem to remember one of the two DDD bolters telling me that he had cleaned and retro-bolted Edge of Space, so I'm only reporting information that is both first-hand and from a reliable source. You care to "editorialize" my statements any further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Pope Quote: "by the same party" Newer Pope Quote: " one of the two bolters telling me that he had cleaned and retro-bolted Edge of Space" I'll let your writing speak for itself. Unless of course you get me drunk and start swinging that... PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Pope Quote: "by the same party" Newer Pope Quote: " one of the two bolters telling me that he had cleaned and retro-bolted Edge of Space" I'll let your writing speak for itself. Unless of course you get me drunk and start swinging that... PP Now I see your point. To quote one of my favorite profs, "What you're saying holds water, but what you've got is a very large cup and not a lot of water." He who bolted Edge of Space was party to the DDD retro-bolting party. So, there! Peter, is this what you do at work all day? Gravy train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Yawn…It will suffice to say that given the participants involved there is more water there than you know. Now get to work! PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 if you bolt it they will come and fuk up the shit. walk off you lazy people the trail can be done at night without a headlamp or moon for that matter (voice of experience).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 So much hostility! I'm of the belief that the rap route already exists. There are chains on top, I believe near the top of Edge of Space. Then bolt stations all the way down to the one about 30' below the splitter on OS. That should be just about directly above the lower pitches of Iconoclast which are easily rapped. That trail gets old, might not be a bad option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 bogus dude!! totally bogus!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 "one about 30' below the splitter on OS. " Is there really one there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 erik said: bogus dude!! totally bogus!! Exactly what is bogus. That it exists? Or that I like it! Those anchors have been there for at least 3 or more years. No ones complained yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Peter_Puget said: "one about 30' below the splitter on OS. " Is there really one there? Yes, directly below the nice ledge there at the base of the crack. I think it's set up with integrated rappel rings and is very much in the middle of nowhere. Definite rap station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 (edited) dberdinka said: So much hostility! I'm of the belief that the rap route already exists. There are chains on top, I believe near the top of Edge of Space. Then bolt stations all the way down to the one about 30' below the splitter on OS. That should be just about directly above the lower pitches of Iconoclast which are easily rapped. That trail gets old, might not be a bad option. listen dingledinka, the SCW is in the wilderness...that means no bulldogs allowed....keep your drilling to the shit in Bham...they need more killer sport climbs anywayS Get a clue you dork. We do not need an access war at SCW. I think this should end any debate. BTW: i am not trying to piss you off just trying to enlighten you. Edit: I believe those anchors you speak were abandoned projects...ask viktor... Edited April 1, 2003 by Szyjakowski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 DARIN NOT THAT YOU THINK IT IS OKAY...YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ARE WELL CONSIDERED BEFORE YOU SPRAY THEM. BUT I DO THINK THAT THE RAPPELL ROUTE IS BOGUS. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE POTENTIAL FOR AN EPIC BY SOMEONE OVER THEIR HEAD THEN DESCENDING THE TRAIL. SCW NEEDS MORE BOLTS LIKE TRASK NEEDS BOVINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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