Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Heard two press conferences he gave yesterday and was impressed with how he handled questions, security of information, and communication of vital facts. He's a cool customer and we're blessed to have him in the position he's in. Good job, Don!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I agree, I think he's a smart cookie. Shock & Awe baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Yeah I thought he was doing a great job when he responded to some reporters question about England with the remark, "I don't know what they're needed for." (or something like that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Of course you would agree with him. After all both of you appear to be relics of the cold war, where the only way you can identify yourselves as Americans is to have a clear and defined common enemy, to band together around the rallying cry of war as in so many Tom Clancy novels. Now once again we must engage in a fight against somebody in order to prove to ourselves we are patriotic Americans. We feel insecure fighting terrorists as we cannot point to something with substance and say "we are against that". A war with Iraq, a country of quantitative structure and a recognized head of state renews this unity of purpose, and in some sick way, renews our self-confidence and stability in our world view. It's disgusting. Reading about Rumsfeld's past, and how his worldview is one where everyone is out to get him is both enlightening and disturbing. He is a master of the press conference, unfortunately, so I have to see his face represent me internationally every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Whatever, Iain. I believe that if we are going into action, we need to do it completely and that's what Rumsfeld's plan entails. Sound doctrine, if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 You are either with us, or you are the enemy. It's like an atari game really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventuregal Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Atari... Iain's metaphor for the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 iain said: You are either with us, or you are the enemy. It's that simple, really. What's wrong with this position? Especially in a time of war? Declare yourself one way or another - countries are either with us, with Saddam, or better claim neutrality. Neutrality won't necessarily mean that we'll be best buddies afterwards, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 adventuregal said: Atari... Iain's metaphor for the world... You're a little young to remember Atari, aren't you Adventuregal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 iain said: You are either with us, or you are the enemy. It's like an atari game really. Either the enemy, or we don't know what you're useful for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg_W said: It's that simple, really. What's wrong with this position? Especially in a time of war? Declare yourself one way or another - countries are either with us, with Saddam, or better claim neutrality. Neutrality won't necessarily mean that we'll be best buddies afterwards, either. Yes doesn't war simplify things in times of uncertainty? Instantly we have an enemy around which we can rally and once again set aside our real world domestic problems to cheer on the good 'ol USA and reaffirm just how kick-ass we are compared to other countries. Doesn't matter how legit the enemy is, as long as it's there and it is EVIL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 iain said: Of course you would agree with him. After all both of you appear to be relics of the cold war, where the only way you can identify yourselves as Americans is to have a clear and defined common enemy, to band together around the rallying cry of war as in so many Tom Clancy novels. Now once again we must engage in a fight against somebody in order to prove to ourselves we are patriotic Americans. We feel insecure fighting terrorists as we cannot point to something with substance and say "we are against that". A war with Iraq, a country of quantitative structure and a recognized head of state renews this unity of purpose, and in some sick way, renews our self-confidence and stability in our world view. It's disgusting. Reading about Rumsfeld's past, and how his worldview is one where everyone is out to get him is both enlightening and disturbing. He is a master of the press conference, unfortunately, so I have to see his face represent me internationally every night. Nicely put. In summary, Rumsfeld is dumb ... sfeld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Don't put words in my mouth, Iain. Even in "peacetime" there are countries and people who are not our friends. Why should we associate with these people? Why should we support with our trade those countries who are the antithesis of the American Idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 iain said: You are either with us, or you are the enemy. It's like an atari game really. thats kinda like there are two types of people in this world: smokers and non-smokers....you must choose which one you are and be it.....all you can be baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg_W said: Don't put words in my mouth, Iain. Even in "peacetime" there are countries and people who are not our friends. Why should we associate with these people? Why should we support with our trade those countries who are the antithesis of the American Idea? Yes, I see, so clearly the best strategy is to go on international news and declare a line-item list of our enemies, just to make it clear then. After all, look what our recent state of the union addresses did for global stability. First rate diplomacy, I love it. P.S. I've no idea what your "American Idea" is at this point, but it doesn't appear to jive with this American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hmmm. You mean don't support undemocratic regimes such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China (lots of trade there), Egypt, etc. We regularly support undemocratic governments as long as they sit up and bark when we want them to. When the start to pull on the leash too much we point to them and say "bad dog" to the world. Precisely what happend in Iraq. And don't forget how we have routinely forcefully placed authoritarian regimes in place of democratically elected governments. Rembember Iran (the Shah) and Chile (Pinochet) for starters, there's a long list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 iain said: P.S. I've no idea what your "American Idea" is at this point, but it doesn't appear to jive with this American. Sorry, just meant democracy, freedom, self-determination, free honest elections, etc. Doesn't surprise me that that wouldn't jive with your socialistic bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Oh yea. We've a great track record of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Jim said: Oh yea. We've a great track record of that! Didn't say we were perfect, Jim. However, I would encourage you to find a country with a better track record and go there. Trask and I will help you pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Greg_W said: Don't put words in my mouth, Iain. Even in "peacetime" there are countries and people who are not our friends. Why should we associate with these people? Why should we support with our trade those countries who are the antithesis of the American Idea? Greg, you gotta admit this is a pretty weak argument. We trade with countries all over the world with either less-than-stellar (if not horrific) human rights records, thoroughly undemocratic governments (China, anyone?), or both, so if our standard is to be nonassociation with and/or aggression toward countries whose ideals run counter to ours, we've got some serious work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Oops ... whilst working, someone else pretty much said the same thing. Ho-hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hey Greg, any country has a better track record (except the old Soviets). Here's a unique concept - respect other country's sovereignty. The US is at the top of the list of meddling, violently, in other countries, most often squash democratic governments to protect "national interests". There's that phrase again. If you really don't know the history I could help you, but it's a long list. Not perfect? I know, we do the bad things for the right reasons. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 Jim said: Hey Greg, any country has a better track record (except the old Soviets). Here's a unique concept - respect other country's sovereignty. The US is at the top of the list of meddling, violently, in other countries, most often squash democratic governments to protect "national interests". There's that phrase again. If you really don't know the history I could help you, but it's a long list. Not perfect? I know, we do the bad things for the right reasons. Please. Jim, you are telling me that there are countries who have worked harder to foster democracy, freedom, self-determination, free honest elections, etc. in the world than the U.S.? Please give me a list. There are very few democracies, let alone democratic republics, in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 I have come to the conclusion that GregW is an insensitive racist caricature being manipulated by someone rather simple-minded. Perhaps Ronald Reagan is a visitor here? Ooops, but Ronald Reagan was simply an insensitive racist caricature being manipulated by dinosaurs (Go America!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 SC, I have a grenade. How about I let you have it for a suppository. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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