two more overdue climbers

[catbirdseat]

I sure wish people would stop going out when bad weather is a certainty. To begin with, poor visibility increases chances of blundering into a crevasse. Second, with no one else on the mountain, there can be no aid from other parties. With a rope team of two, if one falls in, it is up to him to prussik his way out on his own. We can only hope that these two have dug a shelter somewhere and are just waiting out the weather.

[klenke]

What you're saying, MattP, is exactly what I'm afraid of. I still remember that infamous day when Jim Forman first broke on the Northwest scene. Ack! Too much sensation, too much sensation. He's the absolute worst of the bunch.

 

It seems Mimi Jung was sent to MNRP for this coverage for King5. She is much better.

 

Catbird: this is not a nazi state. People go out all the time in iffy weather. They go out because they can and they want to. Maybe the sense of adventure in inclement weather is what spurred them on. I'll never make a decision to go or not go climbing based on what the media or observers might think of what I'm doing. That's America.

[PullinFool]

Given the daring/rating trend of news stations, and the number of helicopters they have, and the escalating prices of rescue, I see a beautiful place in the future where bold newscasters rescue people for free in exchange for the waiver they sign allowing the full airing....

[iain]

Some people consider the harsh conditions as part of the experience, sort of dealing with the mountain on its own terms. Obviously it is easy to underestimate the severity of the weather on a Rainier or a Hood and periodically people get in trouble. However a lot of people safely experience mountain storms, on purpose, and are prepared to deal with the contingencies. I'd rather not write off these climbers as foolish until it is revealed they were not prepared to take a beating that was well-forecasted. Spending an extra day or two in a whiteout is just part of the game in winter, and a welcome part for many. Unfortunately it means a search and rescue operation will be activated if relatives are not on the same page as the climbers where climbers do not make their agreed return time flexible (this is occasionally a hint towards how prepared they were for the weather). Hope they're okay, as we sit here typing they could be battling for their lives, or hanging out in a cave drinking scotch (or both?).

[iain]

Whoops, Klenke beat me to my point and in fewer words

[Jason_Martin]

Any word on who these guys are? Names?

 

Jason

[iain]

Dan_Larson said:

One of the climbers as per the news is 51 year old Chris Mcginnis an experienced climber from Mukilteo . Anyone know him

 

there you go.

[klenke]

The news said Chris McGinnis and one other person from Los Angeles area. Second name was not given.

[catbirdseat]

klenke said:

Catbird: this is not a nazi state. People go out all the time in iffy weather. They go out because they can and they want to. Maybe the sense of adventure in inclement weather is what spurred them on. I'll never make a decision to go or not go climbing based on what the media or observers might think of what I'm doing. That's America.

You can go out in any weather you feel like, but bad weather on Rainier is in a category all its own. Just don't expect rescue to come quickly for these guys if they need it.

[pope]

NEWSTIPS said:

You know, as soon as I re-read my posting with "string of occurrences", I realized that was probably not the best wording.

 

I do apologize for the mischaracterization.

 

Mischaracterization? I think of it more as histrionics, especially when I read/hear "reporting" of that sort. It's a terrible story, and that's exactly why you guys report it (bad news sells papers). The media exaggerates the dangers associated with mountaineering, and why? More hikers perish below the tree line in a hypothermic stupor every year. But where is the drama in that (unless it's a cute little three year old on Mt. Pete)?

 

Fact is, ever since the '96 Everest tragedy, you guys have assigned missing climber stories to the "breaking news"/headline status. Outside of selling newspapers, you're not doing anybody a service by reporting a "string" of two incidents in NW mountaineering. You're just making my life miserable, when I have to go to the family Christmas party and answer questions asked by relatives I only see once a year, who only know what you have taught them about climbing, who insist that I'm selfish/reckless for participating in mountain climbing.

 

And while I'm at it, Jeff Renner is a goof. I grow tired of his little winks, his perma-tan face, and his, "Hope to see you in the mountains." A promotion for Jeff showed video of him pursuing his hobbies out in the NW weather. "Jeff Renner: climber, skiier, diver, pilot.." said the narrator. "Dork!" added my wife. I miss that old guy, Ray Ramsey I think was his name.

[JayB]

While these are some fair criticisms of the manner in which the media covers climbing related tragedies, it'd be more appropriate to put your thoughts in a letter to the heads of the local media companies rather than laying into the individuals posting as NEWSTIPS and king5news, who by now surely rue the day they ever tried to engage the climbing community by means of this site.

[catbirdseat]

TV news is BUSINESS. They will report what the public is interested in. They are in business to make money and are in a better position to decide what is newsworthy than we biased climbers are.

[pope]

JayB said:

While these are some fair criticisms of the manner in which the media covers climbing related tragedies, it'd be more appropriate to put your thoughts in a letter to the heads of the local media companies rather than laying into the individuals posting as NEWSTIPS and king5news, who by now surely rue the day they ever tried to engage the climbing community by means of this site.

 

That is utter horseshit. If you're right, then what keeps the dialogue alive? Why do our friends at KING Television keep returning? Is it the chance to rub shoulders with accomplished mountain climbers such as you? (hey, that U.W. rock TR really inspired me!) Fact is, the media will report what they think will sell papers/sponsor minutes, and the delivery will be as melodramatic as is humanly possible. Writing "the heads of the local media companies" isn't going to change anything, no more than complaining about it here will. If you're thrilled with quality of reporting in climbing-related stories, if you think NEWSBITS is a fun guy to have around the site, then tell him as much. Spare me the lecture, bolt clipper.

[pope]

catbirdseat said:

TV news is BUSINESS. They will report what the public is interested in. They are in business to make money and are in a better position to decide what is newsworthy than we biased climbers are.

 

How depressing. I went to school with a guy who intended to study journalism. Back then, he had a conscience and intended to use his craft to try to make the world a better place. Catbirdturd seems to be telling me that the business aspcet of news reporting means that those in the industry have little responsibility to tell the stories in a factual and balanced manner. Let's then push that idea to the next level and get the "anchorettes" to feed us the headlines topless. THAT would sell commerical time.

[slothrop]

pope said:

Let's then push that idea to the next level and get the "anchorettes" to feed us the headlines topless. THAT would sell commerical time.

 

Been done. Naked News, I think you can get it in Canada.

[catbirdseat]

Okay, Pope. Tell me what factual errors have the King 5 people made on this latest story? They are just relaying what information they have. They aren't making anything up. You are so full of shit, buddy. Call the kettle black why don't you?

[klenke]

It's one of your classic chicken or the egg situations.

 

Which came first, the media overblowing something based on a perceived interest or the perceived interest being instigated by the media overblowing a few initial incidences?

 

In the end--after sufficient time has passed--just which came first becomes blurred into the caliginous mist of history. Since people watch the media, they are influenced by what the media reports (the media generalizes isolated incidences into mainstream normalcy). When the media then notices people changing, they report this assuming they are just observers where in fact they have begun those ways of thinking by their very reporting on it.

 

A prime example of this would be these ubquitous worldwide peace marches. Millions showing up in Rome, thousands in Seattle. The media reports this as if to say that is the way the majority of humanity thinks about the war situation. I contend that this is nowhere near the majority. The majority are not protesting. Those that protest, do so because they want to. Those that don't protest also don't because they don't want to (unless other constraints constrain them). Yet, the media only reports on the protesters because the non-protesters are people not joining forces into a common cause (i.e., they are all in their individual homes). Non-protesters, therefore, do not make for a worthy news story. People see what the media is reporting on and erroneously assume that what they are seeing is a general consensus when in fact it may be far from it.

 

In conclusion: never trust what you see in the media.

[Dan_Larson]

Good thoughts and prayers for those guys . What a rugged night this will be for them . I am d.c. slogger and this doesn't sound like the kind of experience I would welcome, although even I feel that I could make it a night or 2 with the extra weight in my pack.

[pope]

catbirdseat said:

Okay, Pope. Tell me what factual errors have the King 5 people made on this latest story

 

Just as soon as you show me where I asserted that their reporting on this latest story is in error.

[AlpineK]

I've solved all these problems by refusing to watch TV news. If I read a report or hear it on the radio (about climbing) I discount it as complete bs.

 

If a nonclimbing friend tells me about a story they saw or read I tell them the chances are 95% the reporter doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

And if a relative confronts me about climbing, I give them a big grin, look them straight in the eye, and tell them I like climbing because I'm totally crazy.

[allthumbs]

catbirdseat said:

Okay, Pope. Tell me what factual errors have the King 5 people made on this latest story? They are just relaying what information they have. They aren't making anything up. You are so full of shit, buddy. Call the kettle black why don't you?

didn't take long for ya to turn into a snotass like the rest of us

[JayB]

That is utter horseshit. If you're right, then what keeps the dialogue alive? Why do our friends at KING Television keep returning? Is it the chance to rub shoulders with accomplished mountain climbers such as you? (hey, that U.W. rock TR really inspired me!) Fact is, the media will report what they think will sell papers/sponsor minutes, and the delivery will be as melodramatic as is humanly possible. Writing "the heads of the local media companies" isn't going to change anything, no more than complaining about it here will. If you're thrilled with quality of reporting in climbing-related stories, if you think NEWSBITS is a fun guy to have around the site, then tell him as much. Spare me the lecture, bolt clipper.

 

I don't know why you bother continuing with the insults as your opinion couldn't possibly mean less to me .

[Thinker]

for what it's worth (from this website)

 

"Chris McGinnis and I climbed Liberty Ridge starting from White River campground. The first day was a short one to Curtis Ridge. Watch the Winthrop Glacier. There are a number of crevasses and, in poor visibility (as we had), they can be alittle tricky. Also, stay relatively low (around 7,000') on Curtis Ridge. That's the easiest ramp down to the Carbon Glacier. The second day we climbed up the Carbon Glacier. Normally, a crossing would be nearly impossible this late due to open crevasses, but 98-99 had been a record snow year. Still, several of our crevasse leaps probably weren't reversible. WEAR HELMETS. Rockfall on the lower Liberty Ridge is serious and continuous! We camped at Thumb Rock, which has plenty of tent space. The usual route goes up from here, but it was very poor, crumbly ice, so we detoured left onto steep snow. Stay on or to the left of the Ridge to avoid rock bands. We hit alot of ice, which slowed things down, so we camped again at about 12,500 just below the bergstrund. There were several little ice steps through here, so bring 2-3 ice screws. We topped out on Liberty Cap early, but very high winds hit us as we traversed around looking for the descent route, the Emmons-Wintrop route. As conditions were deteriorating, we camped just below the summit. The next morning, we opened the tent door to see lines of climbers on guided groups coming up the Emmons-Wintrop route, which was only 30' from our tent. The trail was beaten down like a sidewalk with wands near every crevass. There are quite a few big crevasses around 13,000' on this route and if you didn't have a trail, routefinding would be interesting. Anyway, we made Camp Schurman for lunch and were off the mountain by dinner. Liberty Ridge is a great route. "

Mike Moxness

Anchorage, AK USA

Email: moxness@alaska.net

Date(s) summited: July 24-28, 1999

Date signed: October 01, 1999

 

[catbirdseat]

histrionics, especially when I read/hear "reporting" of that sort. It's a terrible story, and that's exactly why you guys report it (bad news sells papers). The media exaggerates the dangers associated with mountaineering, and why?

 

"...reporting means that those in the industry have little responsibility to tell the stories in a factual and balanced manner

I stand corrected. You said they are presenting an unbalanced and exaggerated a story. You implied they are not being factual.

 

All I heard from King 5 was a quick report saying that two experienced climbers were reported overdue on Rainier and that no search will be initiated until Tuesday. I saw no exaggeration. How do you "balance" the story? By saying they are probably okay? They did say that. “We are really in a wait mode, we are hoping the climbing party of two will make it out today,” said Lee Taylor, Mount Rainier National Park. “They are experienced climbers who are probably waiting for things to break, until visibility improves and they can make it down the mountain.”

 

Should they balance their report by saying that thousands of climbers go out every weekend without injury? That's like saying, "the victim was stabbed at Pioneer Square, but don't worry, thousands of people drink in Pioneer Square Taverns without getting stabbed."

 

I think that part of what makes this a newsworthy story is it's proximity to another accident only a few days before on Eagle Peak. People's awareness level is raised. It's a classic missing persons report. They happen all the time. About all they could do differently is not report the story at all. Are you afraid that the media is giving climbing a bad name? I think the climbers themselves are doing a good job of that.

[catbirdseat]

The other climber's name is Quang Thau of Los Angeles, Calif.