CC.com Traffic Decrease?

[cgolden123]

Over the last couple years, I have loved using CC.com for trip reports, route conditions, or just procrastination at work, looking at all the epic adventures these users go on. However, it seems like this season, traffic has decreased significantly. I remember checking CC.com almost every Monday morning last season, and it always felt like there were 5-10 new trip reports to read. It could very well be because the TR forums are now modularized, which I didn't like at first, but now I'm definitely a fan of. Just a bit bummed that it feels like such an awesome climbing resource seems to have kind of fallen by the wayside. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is only a thought, not meant to throw any shade or anything of that nature towards CC.com, or the awesome volunteers who keep this site running. I'm just not sure if there's another resource out there that's popped up recently that has kind of stolen CC.com's thunder or what. 

Can't express how much I love this site, I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't. 

[JasonG]

Thanks for the kind words @cgolden123.  I think the rise of social media (FB, IG, etc.) is mostly to blame, but certainly the old software and cranky avatars didn't help.  Within the past year, @olyclimber and @jon have done an admirable job addressing the last two issues, and traffic is ticking back up.  As you know, the beauty of the site is the wealth of TRs and beta housed here, so please continue to use it, spread the word, and contribute! 

Here's to another 18 years of the mighty CC.com!

[Rad]

On 7/26/2018 at 10:55 AM, cgolden123 said:

 I remember checking CC.com almost every Monday morning last season, and it always felt like there were 5-10 new trip reports to read...

Can't express how much I love this site, I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't...

Thanks for the enthusiasm. Most folks here are just as stoked to see pics and read about your (mis)adventures on 5.8 trade routes as read about 5.12R FAs. So please share your via TRs. They're a way of transporting us from our desks/couches into the mountains.

Climb on!

 

[ilias]

Unfortunately I think most people post in the facebook group now. It's really too bad because whereas a forum like cc.com serves as a useful repository of information and trip reports for years/decades, on the Facebook group the posts that people make about their trips are essentially impossible to find after the first few days. I can't count the number of times I've found a key piece of information about some bit of navigation from some trip report here that is 5-10+ years old. Facebook is a terrible terrible medium for this kind of information, and yet people gravitate there because that's where they can get more "likes" on their reports. Sigh. 

[JasonG]

I can't resist the irony of giving your post a "like" @ilias

[ivan]

#fuckfacebook?

[JayB]

There's been a decline in traffic across all message boards, some of which is due to the advent of social media, some of which is due to people accessing the internet with their phones most of the time.

If you happen to be on a social media platform and encounter a story or beta about a route that you think would be interesting or helpful to other folks, encourage whoever contributed to put it up here or ask their permission to post it here so that it gets added to the archive. 

 

[knelson]

Funny I should see this post after not being around for probably 10 years!

I think it's a lot of things, but the young folks are going to gravitate toward social media. I was just talking out loud trying to remember my login here, mentioned it to the wife, and my 11-year old overhead and asked "What's a forum?"  That probably sums it up pretty well. That, and many of us that *do* know what a forum is have drifted away due to family, work, etc.

It's nice to log in after all this time, and still see familiar names. It really surprised me. Really *really* surprised me to still see the same folks running it that ran it last time I was here. Hats off guys!

I've been on a lot of other hobby-centric forums, and I have to say that looking around here after all this time... there's a TON of life left in this place! Long live CascadeClimbers!

-Kurt

[JasonG]

We can't quit @knelson! 

[CascadeClimber]

Man, if you think it's dropped off in the last two years you missed the heyday here.  In mid to late 2000s this place was a madhouse. My two cents on the decline:

1. At the peak the trolls ruled the show here. A few people with many logins went as far as physically threatening people via PM. A lot of valuable contributors left and, apparently, most haven't come back. There was a contingent back then who predicted as much, begging for better moderation. Ad impressions and the trolls won out.

2. Aforementioned social media.

3. I really don't think most people who spend a lot of time in the mountains are extroverts given to sharing their experiences. When this and other forums were new there was a novelty factor that probably drew out some folks who have since gone quiet. The increased crowding in the mountains hasn't encouraged me to post about the cool, unpeopled places I've gone. Before this site existing places like the north side of Stuart via Mountaineer Creek, Johannesberg, Drury Falls, the Pickets, etc. were rarely visited. Now a person who seeks solitude has to go elsewhere and, at least in my case, is reticent to publicize anywhere worth going that isn't overrun.

On a lesser note, I went four of five years where I the software would log me out every time I changed pages. That made posting a PITA that wasn't worth the effort.

[JasonG]

1 hour ago, CascadeClimber said:

software would log me out every time I changed pages

I trust the upgrade has fixed that? 

And that's an interesting point on the overcrowding issue in the Cascades.  Certainly something that most of us didn't see coming....

Terror Basin AND Luna full?  What???!!!

[CascadeClimber]

33 minutes ago, JasonG said:

I trust the upgrade has fixed that?

Several did not. The most recent seems to have, yes. Thank you.

[ivan]

2 hours ago, CascadeClimber said:

Man, if you think it's dropped off in the last two years you missed the heyday here.  In mid to late 2000s this place was a madhouse. My two cents on the decline:

1. At the peak the trolls ruled the show here. A few people with many logins went as far as physically threatening people via PM. A lot of valuable contributors left and, apparently, most haven't come back. There was a contingent back then who predicted as much, begging for better moderation. Ad impressions and the trolls won out.

2. Aforementioned social media.

3. I really don't think most people who spend a lot of time in the mountains are extroverts given to sharing their experiences. When this and other forums were new there was a novelty factor that probably drew out some folks who have since gone quiet. The increased crowding in the mountains hasn't encouraged me to post about the cool, unpeopled places I've gone. Before this site existing places like the north side of Stuart via Mountaineer Creek, Johannesberg, Drury Falls, the Pickets, etc. were rarely visited. Now a person who seeks solitude has to go elsewhere and, at least in my case, is reticent to publicize anywhere worth going that isn't overrun.

On a lesser note, I went four of five years where I the software would log me out every time I changed pages. That made posting a PITA that wasn't worth the effort.

#2's 90% at least of the explanation i imagine

i liked the wild west days quite a bit actually - was decent practice for when The Purge finally breaks out - "there was madness in every direction, you could strike sparks anywhere"

[JasonG]

"We were in the jungle, there were too many of us, we had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little we went insane"

[CascadeClimber]

1 minute ago, ivan said:

i liked the wild west days quite a bit actually - was decent practice for when The Purge finally breaks out

I guess it was fine if you wanted to be a dick (or worse) to people without much personal consequence, but as far as actual climbing/mountaineering content being added to this site...it was the early death knell. I had more than one threat of physical violence toward me *and my family* leveled by people here, including one that involved "settling our differences with ice axes". Doesn't take much of that to turn a place into the equivalent of the part of town where the police won't go and it is most certainly one of the reason I stopped adding content here.

[JasonG]

1 minute ago, CascadeClimber said:

I had more than one threat of physical violence toward me *and my family* leveled by people here, including one that involved "settling our differences with ice axes"

Wow!  I guess I wasn't paying attention (wasn't a moderator then as well), or just naive.  I had no idea it had gotten that bad.  It's a hobby people!

[ivan]

not certain why no one threatened to kill me, as i dearly loved to dance w/ the devils - i suppose my Award Winning Personality disarmed even the dumbest of the trolls  

[ivan]

2 minutes ago, JasonG said:

Wow!  I guess I wasn't paying attention (wasn't a moderator then as well), or just naive.  I had no idea it had gotten that bad.  It's a hobby people!

i remember in the 90s on the old-skewl list-servs that death threats were just de-rigeur, didn't matter if it was just a bird-watching site or whatever - turns out a fair chunk of the population is dangerously deranged, and always has been...

Edited October 29, 2018 by ivan

[JasonG]

1 minute ago, ivan said:

not certain why no one threatened to kill me,

This is a great mystery, indeed

[ivan]

The Dude sees no reason to get all aggro - the trick to poking the bear is to do it w/ style, and to occasionally allow the fucker to have a suck on the liquor to See Beyond the Bullshit  

[ivan]

it probably helped that i could well and truly give a shit about bolting debates

[num1mc]

When I did Drury in 1988, there was a party on the route and two queing up, so crowds have nothing to do with CC

[JasonG]

10 hours ago, num1mc said:

so crowds have nothing to do with CC

I think most of the crowds have to do with IG and FB these days, but it is hard to say.  What is most certainly true is that the North Cascades are WAY busier than they were 20 years ago.  The gong show at the ranger station on weekends is pretty amazing.  Of course, probably most are not climbers, but the climbing areas are increasingly busy as well.  I'm especially amazed at how the Picket cross country zones fill up in July and August.  Inconceivable!

[G-spotter]

Once weed was legalized the potential for Muir on Saturday flamewars dropped way, way down.

 

Also, some of the older trolls are now senile or mummified, which restricts their ability to post.

[jon]

21 hours ago, CascadeClimber said:

1. At the peak the trolls ruled the show here. A few people with many logins went as far as physically threatening people via PM. A lot of valuable contributors left and, apparently, most haven't come back. There was a contingent back then who predicted as much, begging for better moderation. Ad impressions and the trolls won out.

I'm really surprised to read this bit and it's a pretty unfair version of history, although I'll be the first to admit that a lot of the trolls and general bad behavior likely caused a lot of lasting damage that will take time to fix. Yes, there was some really terrible behavior early on and those people were permanently banned. Should it happened quicker? I don't know, probably. Nobody handed us an owners manual when we started this; I was barely 24 when we went live. There are definitely people who I wish I had 86'ed earlier. But you of all people should have known how much we struggled with how to deal with these situtations, which is why I kind of find the "Ad impressions and the trolls won out" astonishing to read. We have never made a decision here for money. Did the trolls win? This site has been online for 18 years and has 8800+ TRs, so I'd argue no. Did they leave a lasting bruise, sure. I have however come to accept this world has changed, there was no iPhone, FB, IG, millions of apps vying for your attention when we first started. This was one of a handful of a small handful of climbing sites.