fredrogers Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Hello all. I was just prowling around the Deforest Service web site and noticed that they plan on pulling the bridges that access Stuart and Colchuck lakes on July15th. This was originally scheduled for last year, but was shelved due to the costs of fighting fires. From the sound of it- even access of foot will not be permitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 May have the same fire problem this year if we don't get more snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Maybe we should just start clearcutting right now to save the forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 evil fuckers...why pull the bridges? repairs? or they just trying to turn car to car climbs of dragontail into baatan death marches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Ivan- Run a search and pull up the thread from last year. It was mostly speculation, but there was some real information there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrogers Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 They're pulling the bridges because they have "exceeded their useful life." For the story, click here: http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Perfect timing to go in there. Find a stream crossing and all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_by_Northwest Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 It's a good thing those bridges are being replaced-they're old. Too many important rec projects like trail work, bridges, etc. got put off because funding was lost to the fires and 9/11. This is a sign that things are returning to normal. Hopefully it will mean less crowds around Colchuck and Stuart too, those areas could use a break and I could definitely make use of some tourist free wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 If it's anything like last year, they won't even issue permits for Stuart and Colchuck. N x NW, how were you planning on getting in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Probably using feet or possibly a bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Ummm, I think fredrogers said in original post that access of TH by foot would probably be closed too. That's why I ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Allison do you really think people won't be able to get in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Fleb- After the first Leavenworth fires, I called the Leavenworth Ranger Station to ask if I could get a permit for an enchantment trip. This was at least one, and probably more like two months after the fires were out. They said the entire area remained closed because of the danger that half-charred but still standing trees might fall on a hiker (the access trails passed through a mile or two of burned timber but the Enchantment Basin, of course, had not burned). I insisted that I had hiked through burned areas before, and I'd be willing to take my chances. They said "no dice." So then I asked if I could approach the area from Ingalls Creek so that I would not travel through any area affected by the fires. They said no. Why? They said that if they caught me up there - even if I had a hiking permit and my car was parked at an Ingalls Creek trailhead - they wouldn't know for sure that I hadn't actually hiked up Snow Creek!!! If they close the Mountaineer Creek trail this year, look forward to more of that kind of law enforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Park at the Eightmile parking lot, cross the creek, and then wander up the road to the trailhead. If they catch you up there, play dumb or take off before they can figure out who you are - they gotta catch you to give you a ticket. Or better yet, have someone drop you off at the eightmile parking lot so there is no car there - that way it would be harder for them to figure out what is going on since there would be no car or hiking permits to trace. Also, I've always wondered about the constitutionality of just closing off a certain segment of the mountains. They can't really seem to come up with a good reason - there isn't some life threatening disaster like an erupting volcano up there or something - it's public land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Screw permits, and screw closures. No reason not to be in there if that's where your goals take you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Screw permits, and screw closures. No reason not to be in there if that's where your goals take you. With attitudes like this, it amazes me that FS law enforcement generally likes climbers less than other user groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Screw permits, and screw closures. Somebody go screw Allison too, maybe it'll make her happy. Actually, maybe if Allison screwed Larry the Tool then everybody would be happy, all problems solved! Gosh, sometimes I get these genius moments, man. Only, just like senior moments turn up when it's most embarrasing, genius moments turn up when it's most useless. Duh Matt, I don't really pretend to get how this works, but is the issue that they had "closed" the entire northern Stuart range area? And because if they found somebody in there they couldn't prove that person had come in on a closed trail, so they couldn't fine? Isn't it a part of that organization's purpose to ensure that we do get access? This sounds plain idiotic. I wonder how a judge would respond to a plea of "but the route was in!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I wonder how a judge would respond to a plea of "but the route was in!" Depends if he climbs If this summer there is a route that i want to do in the stuart range and i'm feeling particulary unimagitive so i can't come up with something else. I'll call and see if i can get a permit. If they say no then I'm going without a permit. And sorry to sound like a dumbass teenager here but i'll be if i let they catch me. Also there are a lot of ways to access the stuart range, i here rat creek got some nice brush. I don't think there going to ban people from the whole stuart range though do to the road repairs. Where they planning on making it off limits last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 (edited) Fleb-that was the point. They said they couldn't believe that I would approach the Enchantments from Ingalls Creek even if I obtained a hiking permit to go that way and parked my car at the Ingalls Creek trailhead. Because they would have no way to verify that I ACTUALLY hiked in that way, instead of risking harm by sneaking up Snow Creek they said, they couldn't allow it. Remember: at the same time, they said the Enchantment Basin was not closed. Does that make sense? Eric8- I have no idea if they are going to close a large part of the range. What I am suggesting is that whatever closure they do decide upon is likely to be enforced in an arbitrary fashion by front-country rangers like Larry-the-Tool and back-country rangers who think they've heard it all before and can't cut any slack when someone comes up with a "story." Climbers and rangers in Leavenworth have a poor relationship and while some might blame selfish and self-righteous climbers for the problem, part of it comes from the District . Edited February 11, 2003 by mattp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 If the Enchantments basin isn't closed and you get caught in there then they'd have to prove you came in from the Snow Creek trailhead, right? Something innocent until proven something something? Actually this could potentially become a pretty funny situation. As in, you get caught, ranger insists on walking you out through the closed-because-of-fire-danger zone. Duh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 "Sorry, Mt. Stuart is closed for cleaning." What a crock. So they want to replace bridges, great. How is it that they can arbitrarily deny access to an area if certain individuals are willing to hump the extra miles to get in there? This is such bullshit. Being naturally distrustful (okay, paranoid) of the Federal Government, I wonder how long it will take them to replace these bridges or if they will find some way to continue their program of restricted access. Can they decommission the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Greg- As I stated above, I don't think we know if they intend to close any of the Enchantments or Colchuck Lake area, only that it sounds as if they intent to close the route in via Mountaineer Creek. A visit to their web page reveals that Visitors will still be able to access the Enchantments via the Snow Lakes Trailhead, but no permit reservations for the Colchuck-Aasgard Pass route will be taken for trips after July 14th; permit reservations for that area will resume once the work has been completed. Fleb- If you actually believe that crap about being innocent until proven guilty, you are naive indeed. If officer Larry or one of the wilderness rangers gets the wrong idea and gives you a citation, you will have to prove your innocence rather than the other way around. If there is a situation where they say one thing happened and you say it happened a different way, THEY will be believed by a judge and not you. And you will have to drive to Yakima at least twice to put on your defense. Good luck. I would hope that the Access Fund or Mountaineers or other climber groups could work with hiking clubs to try to work with the Leavenworth District to clarify the access situation and, perhaps, arrange for such a thing as "off-hours" access or something. But I doubt this will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yeah, boy, I'm such a lamer. I give up, we're all doomed pawns of the government, there is no hope in this world. All hail the deforestation service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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