ryland_moore Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I had trouble trying to ski on Hood this weekend with an AT set up and my Arctis Expe boots and was hoping to use this set up for Denali. So my buddy started an online discussion on telemarktalk.com to see if others had encountered this problem and suggestions to fix it. Here it is: http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=6649&forum=1&4 Also, interesting article by Skoog. Any of you ever MaGiver'd up your climbing boots to get better support for skiing in them? http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=66jr5q%245o%241%40halcyon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I find it just takes a little while to get the feel for your climbing boots. There's no question it is really hard to ski w/o any upper leg support, but it is definitely doable after time. It is frustrating because you feel like a beginner again, and it's usually skiing after climbing something (you're tired) and you have a pack on (always fun). I find if I really focus on keeping my body facing the fall line and keep an aggressive lean into the slope I fair reasonably well. If I get spooked, it's all over and back to pizza/fries/pizza/fries. I think it's all in the head. KNOW you can make the turn and it will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Good info ryland, thanks for the link. Have you thought about one of the newer lightweight hybrid boots, such as scarpa F1 or dynafit mountain lite tech 4?? I'm looking into the mountain lite 4 as a possible new pair of plastics for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 if you are a mere mortal, skiing funky snow in climbing boots is just not as much fun. If your intent is also to catch some turns perhaps you should consider josh's suggestion. on the funny and scary side, once after planting my tips I lunged forward and my liners came out of my shells (koflack I think). After that I always made sure they were laced very tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I pretty much assume I won't be releasing from my 500's either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Yeah, these are Koflach with Silveretta 500's, and maybe I will do a little better with them after having a chance to practice, but under high winds, rain, Cascade cement, and zero vis at the top of the Palmer last Saturday, it prob. wasn't the best consitions to test out how well plastic m. boots do with AT gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 (edited) . Edited June 15, 2021 by jordop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 It's almost worth a lift ticket to do laps in the boots for a day. Does wonders for your confidence. If you can set the ego aside for at least the first few runs... It's also a lot of fun to ski them when you get dialed in to the movements, you really feel the snow and how subtle movements affect the turn. Then you get cocky and wipe out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 (edited) Are you planning skiing the buttress or something? Obviously you won't be able to ski as well. Chances are the snow will be rock hard anyways and will not require much ancle support. I find if I cranck the laces real good before the down they're fine. I've used both the scarpa vega's and the red koflachs on 500s for 2 years and they worked fine. I only recently bought some AT boots for weekend trips but still use my Plastics for traverses and longer trips. It's not like your going for the turns on Denali either. Edited January 28, 2003 by salbrecher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Skiing the buttress in the sense that I will have skis on instead of snowshoes up to 11K. Not planning a ski descent or anything, just prefer to be in skis than in snowshoes for the lower part of the climb. Will also use them for approaches to climbs etc. in the future. Will save other bc skiing for teles and alpine. Good point, Iain. I think I will take my setup over to Bachelor next weekend. This way my girlfriend and I can actually ski together and she can laugh at me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 "Skiing the buttress in the sense that I will have skis on instead of snowshoes up to 11K. Not planning a ski descent or anything, just prefer to be in skis than in snowshoes for the lower part of the climb." That's exactly my point. Your only using the skiis to 11 000 and it's not technical ski terrain below that. Who cares if they're a bit sloppy. In your initial post you asked for solutions to the "problem", there are no solutions to the "problem" (other than common sense such as tightning laces and getting used to them), that's how Mountaineering boots ski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 FWIW when we went up to denali last year I took both scarpa lazers and scarpa invernos. In the end I was happy I did. Yeah I ended up carrying an extra 7 lbs or so, but boy was it worth it being able to ski at 14k camp. It was some of the best powder I have skiied and you could yo-yo ski between 14-16k all day long if you wanted. For me the skiing ended up being the best part of the trip because we did not get to do our intended route. The fact of the matter is we found the weather to be way unpredictable so all the snow made for bad climbing conditions but awesome ski conditions. In the end I wore my mountaineering boots only two days on two separate summit attempts from 14k camp. My climbing partner only took his scarpa denalis and his feet were killing him after the summit days and was jealous that I brought my mountaineering boots. The day we descended the mountain last year, i think it was June 13, it snowed over 3' between 11k camp and 14k camp. It was all you could do to ski motorcycle hill. If I were to do it again I would take my ski boots. I think everyone at 14k camp who left their skis at 11k was completely jealous of the people skiing everyday. What else is there to do. Although you could end up with bullet proof ice and ski conditions will be bad. Such is life on denali though. The weather is completely unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug_Hutchinson Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Another age old problem! One thing that helps is to use short, fat skis, but I am assuming you already have the skis, boots, and bindings. For years I used different versions of "Frankencuffs" which are the boot cuffs removed from downhill boots with webbing through the rivet holes that goes under your plastic boot's instep so the cuff is worn like a gaiter. It really helps but these Frankencuffs can get bulky. The best solution I have seen, is a product Koflach made the first year it came out with it newer Y-series of boots (Degre, Vertecal, Artis Equip) called the "Ski Spoiler." It was their version of the Frankencuff made to fit their boots. It works great because it is stiff both under foot and around the cuff. By "great" I mean it turns a plastic mountaineering boot into the lightest AT boot from a control point of view. I bought a pair, but they stopped making it and the next year I called every backcountry shop in the country before I could find another for a friend. Koflach must have paid big bucks for the mold so I don't know why they stopped selling it since their boot line is the same. To be honest, skiing in climbing boots sucks. But I would not carrry a second pair of ski boots. You need to accept that you will be basically traversing most slopes and doing downhill kick turns to change direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I hear you Ryland! I just started using the mountaineering boot+AT setup combo this winter and expected it to be a challenge. It was indeed that, and while I had no delusions about styling turns with that set-up and a pack on, I found that simply staying upright with no support and the weight on my back was a challenge with this set-up. I think that the most difficult thing to get used to was the lack of any real support from behind as I'm used to downhill setups where you've got so much support that you can lift your tips off of the ground if you lean back hard enough. Downhill boots also keep your legs inclined forward below the knee, something which you tend to take for granted when they're locked in that position. I found that if I consciously inclined my shins forward in particular and my weight forward in general, I had much better - albeit limited - control. I doubt I'll ever go looking for turns with this set-up, but still think it's the answer for long, snowy approaches with a moderate grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I used AT gear with my Invernos on Denali in '99. At the time I had spent maybe a total of one week on downhill skis. Period. I'll let you imagine the consequences. I had zero control and was falling all over the damn place so I strapped them to my pack and walked. After punching through into a crevasse for the fourth time I put them back on but also put my skins back on to slow me down on the hills. Worked like a charm. When I went back last year I used tele gear. My T2's worked great for climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 It was some of the best powder I have skiied and you could yo-yo ski between 14-16k all day long if you wanted. I can't think of a better way to wait for good conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 The final word is that skiing is more difficult in mountain boots. You can modify them plastics all you want but the best bet is just to become a better skier with your mtn boots or suffer. That's why I dont like to do it. I'd rather ski with ski boots on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 Awesome discussion and thanks for all your input. I am making "braces" from an old pair of ski boot cuffs now, and will continue to practice. I have been skiing since the age of 4 but have never felt so off balance on skis in my life! I do have shorter skis (170) for this trip and will be practicing as much as possible until I go. Don't know if I will buy a second pair of boots for the trip though. The budget for this is already high enough. Any more insight is welcome. Thanks y'all. Ryland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 One thing I have tried with positive but limited success is to use the liners of my old Kastinger AT boots in the shell of my climbing boot. The additional rigidity, height and support of the cuff works pretty good. Granted this means you have to go buy some AT liners ... Personaly for doing something like the West Buttress/Washburn I would just go AT boots all the way. They are warm and really not that bad for non technical climbing. Both the Mountain Shoppe and Marmot in Bellevue sell their old AT rental gear pretty cheap .. consider picking up some used boots and buying a new liner that will conform to YOUR feet. my $0.02 wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Any of you ever MaGiver'd up your climbing boots to get better support for skiing in them? I don't ski, but here's another idea: Ski Strap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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