max

quote: Originally posted by klenke: How can something as beautiful as that NOT be protected? Careful that's the logic those sport climbing dweebs use to bolt faces!

Maybe we could have a new forum: "Proposed Mob Scenes" In all seriousness, I think it's pretty cool people from various clubs have taken the time to post their clubs' plans here. Thanks again.

Can somebody please close this post? If your just bs'n , otherwise... help!

I'd be interested to hear what people think about racking their gear. Gearslings? Gearloops? Both? I usually rack pieces of pro on a gearsling, and put draws and biners on my harnesses gearsling. I like how the two are seperated, and it seems to make swapping and reorganizing gear easy and quick. It also seems to keep a good bulk of junk off the gearsling, making it easier to find what I want. And, it's easier for me to swing the gearsling out of the way or into an accesible position than stuff hanging from my harness. That is, in an ackward spot, stuff on the harness can get in the way and be hard to get to. Also, I've been using a gearsling for long enough that it just gets my head set straight when I put the gearsling over my head and onto my shoulders. Kind of a Jedi thing Anybody have anything insightful to add? dave

quote: Originally posted by TIMM@Y: what do you think of the link color now? Somebody above mentioned it was hard to see which page you were on and which numbers could be clicked to jump to another page. I still have this problem. Can we get the underline back? Or a more distinct color? otherwise, looks pretty frickin good!

Nah. Maybe i just can't get into the light idea enough, but it seems like a 50 (or even 60 if that's all you've got) meter rope at 8-9 mm is just fine and still plenty light enough. something I quickly found out when I practiced self extrication and self rescue stuff was that extra rope and long tails could mean the difference between an easy extraction and a shitty/improbable one. I think this especially applies when you're traveling as a two person team. Plus, if an alpine climb is best suited for a 30 m rope, it's probably just a glacier slog....

quote: Originally posted by dyno merchant: by the way...casa que pasa has the best potato burritos Actually, having made numerous samples of both (ignoring the biased standard deviation on the Casa side), the potato burrito and Big potato burrito (with beans, rice, and salad) is better from Illegal pete's in...sorry, Boulder. The Casa PB has WAY too much goopy sauce. Although, I do appreciate the dirty, hippy, smelly casa scene more than the... annoying Illegal pete scene. And the casa potatos are fried better.

quote: Originally posted by dyno merchant: All the bouldering is in a very fragile alpine environment where there are signs everywhere telling you to stay on the main trail. It seems that the boulderers didn't think that the signs applied to them because there are rough climber trails weaving throughout the boulders and the landing zones have been beaten down complete with cutting down small limbs and bushes that are in the way. I think DM has hit on something applicable to nearly all access issues. I think that early in climbing, climbers justified their "trespassing" (I use quotes to imply trespassing in the broad sense) with the the ideas that 1. There aren't very many of us so our violations will have a relatively small impact. 2. Since there are not very many of us, we probably don't occupy very much of the public's conception of land users, and thus the people that put up these signs must be targeting someone else. They don't even really think about us much so they probably didn't direct these regulations at us. In general, these views probably were somewhat true and violations of the regulations in place had minimal effect due to the small number of climbers. Now it's a different story. There are whole lot more climbers and they're definately at the front of some land managers thoughts. But the mentality of "the rules don't apply to us" still prevades. So climbers still ignore "stay on trail" signs, drive around gates, etc.

quote: Originally posted by DM: I am a boulderer and the only reason it sounds like I'm railing on boulderers is because I try to stay realistic about the impacts we have on our environment. quote: Originally posted by erik: is this an oxymoronic statement??? There is absolutely nothing oxymoronic about this...

One time I bivied with a friend in the back of my truck, and when we woke up, all of our snacks, liquor, and.. well, our treats had been scarfed by an unidentified entity. My friend was as dumbfounded as I was. He said he never heard a thing that night. Spooky.

Central Cali Climbing: I've heard of some "Rock" right off the coast of San Fran. Supposedly it's mostly "permanent locals" that hang out there, but they love visitors! About the husband/wife thing: no offence to you or your wife, and I don't even know either of you, but I put squabbly husband/wife teams at the crag right up there with people who bring their dogs and/or kids. dave brannon

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Stay away from sport climbers and especially gym climbers. They are lemmings; mindlessly throwing themselves off precipices. The word "precipices" sounds and looks like "testpieces".

quote: Originally posted by Doug: And what about Big Lou? Think his would fit on the average page? Are you saying he's a big asshole? Shame on you!

Cash out dividend by buying cliff bar, use cash for a sticky sack.

Two comments quote: The Campbell Group must be loggers because I'm pretty sure that's what is going on up there. 1. I can't absolutely positive about this, but the Campbell group is an investment/development company, not a loggin company. Subtle (but important) difference. 2. Please don't take this as a admonishment. I can't admonish because I've done it myself. When people put up gates and signs, they do so for a reason. As climbers, our goal is not important enough to justify disregarding the land owners wishes. It may seem unfair that someone can "own" land, but you "own" your house, right? Signs may also be to protect the public from hazards: speed demon logg trucks, falling trees, washed roads, etc. One may think they're smart enough to outwit a falling tree. Chances are they're smart enough, but the concequences for the land owner in the event of that unlikely event are large enough it's only fair to respect their wishes. All of this stuff applies to public land, too. If an agency has restricted access, there's a reason. Even if you disagree with the agencie's restriction, violating the restriction only makes it harder for the agencie's employees and doesn't really "stick it to the man".Like I said above, I'm not trying and trying not to lecture anyone because I'd be hipocritical if I did. I just want to give some prespective on trespassing.

quote: Originally posted by Mike Gauthier: They have the characteristics of regular tectonic earthquakes, NOT volcanic earthquakes. Can anyone give a resonable explanation of the difference between tectonic and volcanic earthquakes? Does it have to do with the depth of the origin? Just curious... and wasting time! [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: max ]

Kevin: Check your PM's.

pope: yeah I was thinking about this last night and was trying to employ the "try to convince yourself into agreement before forming a refutation" trick and realized how appropriate this topic is. Just sunday I climbed a super fun face climb in Boulder Canyon. It was steep with positive holds in most places, a few dicy sections that required some interesting body positions. Bolted. And after having climbed the route, I was a little disappointed that it was bolted since there were plenty of #1-#4 TCU cracks. The bolts were purely for convenience. So I have to moderate what I said above. Your (plural) right; there are quite a few climbs out there that are and should not be bolted. And that's too bad. Later. http://www.climbingboulder.com/rock/db/boulder_canyon/the_boulderado/qs.html This page is full of Boulderisms. I especially like the comment from Zach! And the exposed trail they talk about... yeah, it's exposed if you're riding a unicycle backwards with your eyes closed and a watermelon on yer head! Overhung? Stoopid. I have to vent a little about Boulder! I gues sthe best thing is to laugh. [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: By the way..."young fart", as far as "lecturing" is concerned...you and others of all ages could learn alot from people who have been around a bit...some of my heroes and mentors are in their seventies and eighties and offer insights I would probably not gather from someone else without the life experience. It's up to you to listen, question and evaluate, and to adopt, alter or dismiss. I feel fortunate to have been able to mentor under an awesome "old dude" for the first four years of my climbing. He taught me lots of practiacal things about climbing, but even better he taught me about climbing smart and not acting like a sixteen year old. Ahhh, isn't that sweet!

Well, if you're talking about bouldering... can't help you. If you're looking for climbs... Go to the Ruply towers area. There are at least three super-classic Lemmon climbs there in the 5.8 range. R-#'s. "Chihuahua Power" is a great bolted 5.9. Slippery When Wet is a great two pitch trad 5.7 on one of the buttress' SW of Windy Point. It goes right up the end of the formation and has great exposure. High Karate (5.7?) is a classic in the same area. Hitchcock Pinnicle has a fun trad 5.7 and a good bolted 5.11. Both of these will take you to the top of a great pinnicle. There's a fun 5.11 on the east face of tri-level spire. In general. I'd head for windy point and go from there. You'll see a whole bunch of cars in the lot, but they're all tourist (who I love, eric) that will stay at the overlook.It's been a while since I've been there, and I don't know what you're looking to climb, but you can't go wrong with these! Have fun. FYI: There's a great place to camp East of town. Go to the N.E. corner of town and head up Tanque Verde or East Reddington Rd. I did a litte mapqwest work and couldn't figure out exactly which one. The right road will take you up into NF land overlooking the city to a usually quite spot. And free.

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: I would venture to say that a great many of the people entering "climbing" today are introduced to such by way of a gym or sport climbing area, and have no idea that there is anything potentially dubious about the effects of bolting, etc. Some of us began our climbing careers with the birth of what was called "clean climbing". The damage of pitons and bolts was explicitly recognized and revolutionary attempts were made to avoid this sort of "dirty" climbing. (Not to speak of hanging on pro as "free climbing" which I consider a stylistic rather than an environmental issue.) With the normalization of "sport climbing" and widespread rap-bolting, etc., the clean-climbing revolution seems to have been mostly forgotten. A few of us missionaries, still survive to spread the word, and will continue to do so. And not all of us are bolt-chopping fanatics, either. I'm hesitant to add my thoughts since wwhat's been said above is so perfectly civil and insightful. I've got intelectual secerity issues. I've selected this from D's responce because it struck a nerve with me. Now, I'm not using this as evidence to show Dwayner is (we'll fill this blank in a bit), but mearly using it as an example, or maybe simply as a lead into what I have to share. I'm a relatively young climber. I also consider myself to be at least on the "trad" side of the current issue, if not a discernable distance from the mean. But I often get responces from the older climbers that seem to sterotype me as a bolt clipping sport monkey. It seems that some people think that because I wasn't there for the clean climbing revolution I have no respect for it. Far from the truth. I'll admit to having clipped a few bolts and even shitty fixed pins and had a big smile come across my face. I've finagled with old nuts in shitty cracks and pulled shenanigans to make myself think I had some pro. So I have at least some sense of the boldness the first wave of clean climbers demonstrated. To hear some old fart (now remember, I'm not talking aboutmyou, right?) give me a lecture on how I need to stop clipping bolts and learn to respect...blah blah blah.. Can it. Go sterotype someone else. So, did you say "a great many [not all] of the people entering "climbing" today are introduced to such by way of a gym or sport climbing area?" Yes. Alright, it wasn't a blanket statement. Did you say "Some of us began our climbing careers with the birth of what was called "clean climbing". Yes. Another non-blanket statement, but one similar to those that seem to ignore the younger generation that's doing the very same thing. Finally "A few of us missionaries still survive to spread the word..." was in there too. Not too strong, but still similar to comments that hint at blind ritousness and martordom (it's especially embarassing to mispell things when addressing you, Mr. Dwayner) On a related issue, "no matter how hard you climb,if you clip bolts then you are a pussy.." is complete crap. I know of crazy, scary, insane routes in Yosemite, Cochise Stronghold, and even a few just moderately crazy routes in Leavenworth, Squamish, Jtree...(the list goes on) that are all bolt (un)protected, that were put up by sick dudes (and you can use the "dudes" if you'd like, too). THey clipped the bolts. If you're calling them pussies, I'm not sure I understand your scale! I'll sum it up by saying to those that cry about bolts and yabber about how "those young punks don't know what it was like when I was climbing with a rack of nuts and a whole lots balls..." haven't seen the same cross section of the climbing population as I. And like I said, I'm not getting on your case, just what you said made me think.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Dat rock looks like choss, must be Rado or something. Before I pulled the old "save as" trick, I was trying to brainstorm peaks in CO. Then I gave myself a good slap for not noticing the crevassed glacierS, all but eliminating CO.

Gannett Peak http://www.peakware.com/encyclopedia/peaks/photos/gannettsouth1.htm

quote: The first time it was a custom-made wooden paddle that I loved but was stupid enough to loan it out for a first descent of a waterfall. Hindsights 20/20, but your right, that was stupid!