erik

i didnt say never fix them, just not until there is a solution. i think that leaving the routes hangerless atleast quites it down for a bit. my main concern is damgine access over the lonf run.....grafiti and other types of vandalism are jsut as bad as stealing hangers.....cept that the public has little to no idea about the hangers they do reconize graffiti...... is mother nature had inteded alot of the routes out there to be climbed they would have to trundle shit off of those faces day in and day out........ we dont have to climb every piece of rock let alone bolt it.... another question that i know mttp and i have discussed....is who is going to maintain all these bolts...????? and another question what kind of traffic does a climb have to get for it to be considered a worth while effort in cleaning and bolting???? alot of the route further down only get mild traffic compared to the rest of the area... i am not trying to get down on the route developers, i hst think there is a point where enough is enough.....and i think vantage has had enough.......maybe this person stealing the hangers is a messenger....?????? NO MORE NEW ROUTES IN VANTAGE......for the sake of Mother Earth

as unfortunate as the situation is over there, the one thing that gets me is why would someone whom is soo supset over the current theft situation create a bigger problem by naming people with little to no evidence.(and if you have evidence please share) cause all the graffiti that has been spread over the area is probably a bigger problem then any good it might do........ i have climbed at vantage my entire climbing carrer, never thought it was the best but not the worst either......i think i have even been involved in some of the route creations..... but the trhing that gets me even more is the amount of development that goes on down there....... how many routes should be established??? and why that many???? maybe instead of looking into the problem from only one perspective is blinding everyone from the complete truth.....bloting issures do not have one side or another cause both points are typically valid.....but is the message that this person sends clear and heard by all?? or is it a power struggle between few involving all??? i dont think removing fixed gear is a crime, but niether is putting thousands of bolts into less the quality rock isnt either...... replace and fix the anchors and leave the rest of the crap alone until a permanet thoughtout non-slanderous soluion can be found...... repalcing the bolts over and over and over again only gives the bolt thief the reactions she/she/they want.....especailly if it is not your named suspect..... everyone should leave vantage alone NO NEW ROUTES......for the glory of mother earth!!

3 words for fairweather and matt anglo christian attitude

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Have you been up that road recently? I've been wondering if that might provide access to Keyes Peak for a mid-winter ski trip. matt, do you look at keyes as a day trip or overnight??? have been thinking about same thing

i saw we go to Bob's tavern in shelton on tuesday night......

it loaded for me.....does anyone want me to describe it to them???

lucky when you say chopped i believe you are implying just that....out there today and these routes are not chopped, but only hangerless....

chucK another one up for the good guys!!!!!!!!!

where are those GIRLS garmets???? what would warden say.....

'W' is so balanced in his approach!!!! my sentiments exactly!

phil you are not allowed at index so how would oyu know what it looks like...... keep your mouth shut!!!!!!!!!!!

two questions: dave who is the brunette on the armed forces challege with the red jersey on???? find out will ya! mtnrgr why cannot non military people participate?? are yo guys afraind that a bunch of wussy civilians will kick your arse??? bring on sista cause e dawg wants to play!!!!!

norman i disagree with you on leaving all the slings at a rap or belay......how much of a cluster fuck do you need??? if there are good pices then leave it alone, if it needs a pieace add it, but clean off the rattiest slings huge nests of slings only provide a false sense of security....and create confusion?!?!?!?

max de jong has and i am sure others.... lets ask the legends??? rod?? whats the call??

you are right, beckham was the name i was thinking of, de jong's name is just easy to remember

the thing i think most people miss with looking for rando gear is wether the boots climb well or ski well or do both well..... well let me ask you this. when was the last time you went to approach an ice climb and deceided to rip it up big time on the way out???? not very often. now when you deciede to go skiing how often do you deciede to go climb some killer ice? not very often.....so use different boots for different applications. if you want to go skiing buy ski boots and if you want to go climbing buy climbing boots. both boots will cross over and perform at the other medium but will probably not excel. and with ski boots go stiff......

see you all there in a little while

i second that nomination and by the way dwayner i having girl problems too, how about some of that hottie bo bottie therapy pope is talkin about???!!!!! you don't even need to be there!!!!!

please do a search using the websites search engine then we will not have to go over this again. thank you!!!!!

quote: Originally posted by dbb: Let me tell you , the "ski crowd" at Alpental calling it "slot" better watch out if the true first ascender finds them! Mr. Hard core who made the first ascent did it in the summer, solo, fist jamming ice/rock in the moat, while out on a "stroll" . (Check out AAJ ~1980, worth the read) <lame pontification >He called it the NW face. What gives with all this "slot" stuff? Wouldn't it be more useful to call it what it is in Beckey? </lame pontification > i was referring to the ski patrol and my friends who are on it. so i think your sarcasm is lost.

i affectionatly call you all the dot.commers. i have no affilation with any dot.commers other then my email adresses and in searching for a way to relate to the rest of the computer world(mainly the seattle-lites) i adpoted this moniker to feel one with the high tech industry.

quote: Originally posted by Sleeveless: Is Hattie's Hat smokie?? Are you guys seriously asking that question?!! well you better be there then shit talker.........

never said i was great or will i ever i was just letting you know whom i was talking about, like i said i am unaware of any 'in' crowd. but maybe you know????? maybe you guys should start it up. i can see it now.......... *reality check* blach!!!!nasty i need to drink some bleech, those thoughts are impure........

ignorance is no excuse and i am the worst skier, so there and i am just strying to stip up some shit.......

there is another study out there stating that the current tend of the decline of livability on the planet earth is due to the rampart growth of the human race...... best way to fix it?? follow the leemings!