Jason_Martin

I think he was on H202 and from what I understand he was leading rope solo. When he fell, his device did not catch on the rope. The rumor was that his device didn't bite on the icy rope... Like icegirl said, I understand that he was injured severly. I even recall something about a coma... Anybody know what happened to that guy? Did he make it? I looked for it in Accidents in North American Mountaineering and didn't see it. Jason

That's a double munter. Jason

Well I tried to upload a photo of a super munter for those who were interested, but it didn't quite work out. For some reason I couldn't get it to post correctly. Oh well... There are three types of rappels that are kind of nice to know which may help in a rescue scenario: 1) The Counterbalance: This one was described in one of the earlier posts, but I thought I would make it a bit more clear. Essentially a counterbalance rappel is when there is a climber hanging on one end of the rope and the rappeller is on the other end. The rappeling climber must rap down to his injured buddy, clip a sling or a cord from himself to his buddy and then continue the rappel. After the attachment is attained, both will be able to descend simultainiously. The trick to this particular descent is that the rope must be able to slide freely through caribiners on the anchor. Otherwise it just wouldn't work. The climber in control of the situation should have an autoblock on the rope. 2) The Spider: In this rappel configuration, there is one rappel device attached to the rope. One climber is attached to a single shoulder length sling which in turn is attached to the rappel device. The climber on the short sling is usually the injured climber. The second climber is attached to a double shoulder length sling and he is the one in control of the rope. His double shoulder length sling goes from him to the rappel device. Once again, the climber in control should have an autoblock on the rope. 3) Pre-rigged Rappel: Generally this rappel would be saved for someone who is conscious and alert as he or she will be required to help in the descent. In this system, the injured climber is tied into a sling which is then tied into a belay device on the rap line. The rescuing climber will then rappel down, leaving the other climber to hang from the sling attached to his belay device on the rope. The injured climber will generally not be tied into the anchor as the rappeling climber's weight will keep him in place. Once the fit climber reaches the ground, he can give a fireman's belay to the injured climber or even lower him using a fireman's belay. A lot of people practice the different rappels when they are out doing a route and aren't in a rush. Why not? Messing around with these on random descents usually nails them down in your head. Good stuff. Good thread. Jason

Probably early October. Jason

I've lowered people on a munter many times. I've lowered up to three people at once on a super munter which requires one more twist in the munter system. Another thing you might consider for lowering multiple people off a munter is "enchainment." In other words you have a munter on your anchor, one end of the munter goes to the climbers and the other goes to your ATC. When you do this you get a great deal of friction. I've lowered three people in an enchained system as well. Self Rescue is a huge subject and there are lots of ways to do things. Its certainly okay if lots of people have lots of different ways of doing things as long as it gets the job done. Jason

JGowens, Last time I posted anything on this site about guiding I got hammered with spray. But oh well... I've been guiding a few years now. This is my first year working full time as a guide... Which is not a great way to get rich as others have said. However, if you really do find teaching people and guiding people rewarding then you will probably continue to do so. I've had days where I've been pretty down on guiding. But those days are fewer than the days that I love it. For the most part you are taking people out who want to have fun, who are on vacation. I've also taught high school. It was a great time in my life, but I don't think I'll go back to it. I'm not a disciplinarian. I like to have fun. As a guide, most of the time you get to have fun. I can't do this forever...but for now its really great. No matter what I do with my future career, I'll probably always do a bit of guiding somewhere. You should enjoy climbing easy routes if you want to be a guide. And you should enjoy going back to the same places... If you don't enjoy these two aspects then it's probably not for you. Many guides get to a point where they really enjoy the challenge of guiding routes... I happen to be one of these. Where a route such as the South Arete on SEWS has little climbing challenge, it actually has significant guide challenges. It's not uncommon for guides to try and get "first guided ascents" or to try and guide routes with interesting problems. There has been a significant amount of talk about permits and such. It's not a good idea to start guiding without working for someone else for awhile, then you'll learn the ropes and what it takes to start your own business. Guiding without a permit or formal training is reffered to as "pirate guiding." If you get caught the fines are significant. If someone gets hurt while you're pirate guiding you're going to be pretty much screwed. Going through the AMGA or the ACMG is a good way to learn the ropes. Generally if you take a course with one of these organizations you will become somewhat marketable as the company you apply for will have to spend less money training you. In the future AMGA certification will probably help people attain permits for certain areas. Full certification allows guides to work in Europe and Canada. Partial certification currently opens doors to Joshua Tree and Ouray. As such, some certified guides work for themselves. American guides who work in Europe make better than a decent living... I wrote a little thing for my own website on how to be a guide, you can read it here: Web Page Lastly, there was a remark somewhere in this thread about guides doing some kind of work on the land wherein they guide. I work primarily in Red Rock Canyon and in the Cascades. In the Cascades I've carried out other peoples WAG bags and in Red Rock I've replaced old bolts and carried out a significant amount of garbage. Most guides I know do this kind of thing all the time. Let the spraying commence. Jason

The ratings in Red Rock are wildly varied. It is not uncommon to find a route that varies in the opposite direction. The problem is that most first ascents in the area are put up by outsiders who bring their own rating prejudices to the area. The result is that -- aside from sport climbing which is admitedly soft -- ratings vary dramatically. Jason

Last year I had the opportunity to climb a rather fun early season objective in Washington Pass, the left Couloir on Whistler Mountain. Lots of people climb the right couloir in late season and find it to be pretty easy... The left, however, is a bit more challenging. We found snow climbing up to seventy degrees and a lot of mixed snow and rock climbing. After completing the route I wrote up a route description on it for the guide service I work for. I've cut and pasted this report below. I think it's a route worth checking out. Jason ______________________________________________ From the Liberty Bell Massif one often tends to look across Highway 20 and to dream about future ascents. The area offers a great view of Cutthroat Peak, an often-climbed objective, but what of the peaks around Cutthroat? On the ridgeline to the left there is one minor peak, then the ridge continues to Whistler Mountain. Here lies a peak with a very engaging profile. Just right of center, the mountain has two large couloirs which blast up from nearly the same elevation as Highway 20. The left couloir is far steeper and a worthy objective. The right couloir, though not as steep presents extreme difficulties toward the top of the climb in early season. Because of the difficulties found on the right couloir it is not recommended as a route. Little is known about the history of these couloirs. They’ve certainly seen numerous ascents. In Fred Becky’s Volume Three of the Cascade Alpine Guide, information on the route barely even fills a paragraph. "A winter climb via the E. Couloir to the N. Ridge, then seven pitches on the ridge, was done by Steve Costie, Richard Filley, and Dave Lord in February 1977." The result of this lack of information is that Whistler Mountain is seldom climbed. It is even more seldom climbed by these elusive and steep couloirs. Season: This is a snow and ice climb with a bit of rock thrown in for good measure. Generally speaking the route will be completely out of condition by the first of July usually earlier, but a heavy snow year with a cool spring could provide solid climbing for a longer period. A good measure as to whether or not the route will be in condition is to check out the conditions in the Southwest Couloir of South Early Winter Spire. If this route is in decent condition, so then too will the route be on Whistler Peak. Gear and Equipment: Depending on route conditions gear may be quite varied. If it is warm and the snow is slightly soft the route is still doable. In these conditions an ice axe and enough pickets and flukes to pitch out sections or to simul-climb is acceptable. However, if it is cold and the route frozen, one may require full ice climbing regalia including two tools and ice screws. A small rock rack is a must in all conditions. Approach: Park at a paved pullout roughly even with the base of the route. Descend to the creek and find some means to cross it. Ascend easy slopes to the base of the twin couloirs. The left couloir is one’s objective. Assess avalanche conditions before continuing. Route: This route can be broken into three sections. The first section is the Lower Couloir, the second section is the Upper Couloir, and the third section is the North Ridge. The following description will use these names to identify the different aspects of the route. The Lower Couloir: Ascend the obvious couloir. Difficulties in this section may include snow or ice climbing up to forty degrees. The vast majority of this lower section however does not exceed thirty-five degrees. Eventually the couloir will begin to move to the right. Ascend towards the ridgeline. It looks as if it is flat above… It isn’t. Exit the couloir and climb to an obvious rock toe on the ridge. From this vantage one should be able to look down into the right couloir. Above and to the right is the Upper Couloir. The Upper Couloir: From the ridgeline at the rock toe, the difficulties increase. Traverse on steep snow into the upper couloir from the rock toe. By no means should one traverse far enough so that they are in the right couloir. Continue up the left couloir on gradually steepening snow. One can expect to find snow or ice reaching sixty degrees in this portion of the climb. When I climbed this route in June of 2002, we found an interesting steep variation about halfway up the Upper Couloir. A natural belay existed in a moat on the left-hand side of the couloir. Here we discovered an excellent place to take a break and a steep snow pencil that shot up between the islands of rock. This snow pencil included mixed snow and rock climbing with difficulties up seventy degrees. Above the snow pencil one had to climb fourth class rock to a second nice low angle belay on rock. From here one may traverse back out into the primary couloir. Climb the remainder of the upper couloir to a cornice on the North Ridge. In June of 2002 this was easily bypassed on the left side. However, if the cornice is a serious problem, there is the small possibility of bypassing it on the right side after a bit of rock climbing. The left side provides a small tree on the ridge, which one may use as protection or as a belay. The North Ridge: In many ways this last section of the climb may provide the crux. Though the rock climbing is easy (forth class and low fifth) there is at least one if not two mandatory traverses on steep snow or ice. Expect to spend some time on this portion of the route. Climb the North Ridge toward the summit. The rock protection here is not great, so build anchors when protection is available. Approximately halfway up the ridge is the mandatory snow traverse. Protect this well, as it is at least seventy degrees on the eighty-foot traverse. On the right side of the traverse, rock protection may be available to build a belay. Beware of loose rocks. From here, one may be able to climb to the false summit in one long pitch or two shorter pitches on mixed snow and rock. From the false summit it is an easy scramble to the true summit of the mountain. Alternately, there is a second rightward snow traverse, which will bring one to the West Side of the mountain and into an easy snow gully. The snow gully and a little third class climbing will provide the team with the summit. Descent: After such a route, an easy descent is the best thing one can find. Down-climb third class rock to the West and attain the snow gully. This gully drops down to the West and Southwest toward Highway Twenty. One can see Rainy Lake for the vast majority of the descent. Beware of moats and streams running beneath the snow on the descent. Eventually one will emerge either onto Highway Twenty or in the Pacific Crest Trail Rainy Pass Parking Lot. This is at least three if not four miles from the car, so expect to hitchhike or hike back to the car at the end of the day.

Daisy, Most parties do this in five to seven days. Though there have been numerous parties that have done it faster and even some who have skiied it. To do the standard traverse, one should have basic mountaineering and navigational skills. If you have the skills to climb Cascade volcanos, you have the primary skills needed to do this traverse. Many parties elect to climb peaks along the route. The peaks along the way have a variety of difficulties, from very easy to somewhat technical. Summer is usually the time that this is done. From early to mid-July (depending on snow cover) a good chunk of the traverse is on trails. Good luck. Jason

When I did City Park in the rain the entire crack was flowing with water. The crack was nowhere near dry. And like another response here I ended up with enough water down my sleeves and in my shirt to have a miserable day. Jason

I was in Lee Vining two weeks ago and there was still ample ice to be found. If the current weather pattern holds it should be around for a little while. Things melted out significantly in mid-January. There was a heat wave in the southwest. A buddy of mine was guiding in Lee Vining and temps hit nearly seventy degrees! Not a great time to be climbing ice. Since then it's cooled down significantly and as I stated above, there was plenty of good climbing there two weeks ago. Jason

Dale, I don't think this is inflaming at all. I think it's important. As this week is the last chance I have to make minor changes in the ice climbing book, I'd like to hear other opinions as well. Jason

Dale, You're right. There has been a lot of controversy over the last few years about this route and when I wrote grade five in the previous post I suspected that there would be some controversy over it. However, I've heard strong climbers talk about this route on both ends of the spectrum. In some cases people whom are very strong climbers have given routes on this face rather hard grades. The time they've taken to complete the routes has been far longer than one would expect. Though as you've said there also have been those who have come to this mountain and found the routes to be "easy." I've been researching this mountain for a couple of years now and am convinced that there are bulges and such that appear some years and do not appear others. Also, it is not uncommon to find ground with very thin ice on it. As a result, perhaps I should reword my earlier statement to say, "routes on this mountain are often found in Grade V conditions." Indeed, in earlier write-ups I referred to the routes as Grade IV's, but the stories just kept coming in until I felt that the majority rule was leaning toward Grade V. I don't know... Maybe it is Grade inflation. It's something I've been worried about. There have been other reports of WI 5 ground in the vicinity of the route climbed by Mike and Matt. I personally have not climbed the mountain in the winter. However, I have about a dozen stories of people who have and as stated above, the difficulty of routes in the same area tends to vary greatly. Hope this makes sense as to why I posted what I posted. Jason

Blight, I just reread your post and I can see the humor in it. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. Jason

Blight, The history of Big Four is full of forced bivies. In most cases however, those bivies took place on route. Dan Stage and Warren Gold stayed under an overhung rock about three quarters of the way up the face in 1979 on their route in the gully just left of the Central Rib. Joe Catellani and Gordon Adams were forced to bivy in a snow cave half way up the face on the first ascent of the central rib in 1982. Dan Cauthorn and partner were forced to bivy on the summit. Your misinformed on grade and difficulty. Kearny calls his line to the right of the Central Rib Grade III-IV. The line he describes may be the easiest line on the mountain. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of the routes on Big Four Mountain are Grade V. The guys who had to Bivy in the seventies and eighties were pretty strong. Not only that, but it's the routes that are Grade V, that doesn't necessarily include approach and descent . Your tone is pretty sarcastic toward these guys. Though Big Four Mountain has received a lot of press on these webpages in the last year or so it hasn't been done that much. The reason is because the routes on this mountain are quite commiting. Though these guys were late and they did have a hard time descending, they still completed a great route with a growing reputation. To equate them to a Mountaineers Outing gone bad is actually kind of offensive. So since everyone who writes in here is -- in your opinion -- somewhat lame for saying "good job" to these guys, I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and congratulate them on their ascent. Great Job Guys! I'm glad you got down safe and had an excellent time together! Jason

Wes, I'm sorry if I didn't thank-you. I appreciate the information that you and others have provided us. All of you who have contributed have been a valuable resource. I feel bad that somehow I neglected to send you a personal email concerning the beta you sent me. As I understand it, Alex was asked not to post beta on how to get to this particular area. However, to indicate that neither Alex nor I have provided info since the first draft was posted some time ago is not true. I have personally responded to every post concerning areas that I did research on. If you put up specific questions we will do our best to respond with specific answers. I have personally provided a great deal of beta to people through this website, through emails and over the phone. Those who made extremely large contributions have copies of the draft in many stages of development. If you email me with a specific question about just about any other area than that that created this particular thread, I will answer it. If you post a question, I will answer it. Again, I am really sorry that I did not thank you with a personal email. Jason

I really like his book... Particularly the adventure section! His drawings are really nice... I really appreciate the work he did on that book. Nice Job Tim! Jason

I also have a pair of Invernos and Alphas. But unlike Dale's experience, my feet have been quite cold in the Alphas. Physiology has a lot to do with it. Some people's feet get colder more easily than others. I think you'd be hard pressed to find average climbers wearing leathers or hybrids on Denali. Many people actually wear plastics, overboots, and super-gators and their feet are still cold. Footwear is not a good place to skimp on such a cold mountain. Jason

Rodchester, Your point is taken... However, I don't think you understood what I meant. European certified guides would like to work for themselves (not for an established guide service) in the United States. They would like to come here and spend a month on Denali or in Yosemite working for themselves with their European clients. The red tape that they must cut through in order to do this is not only difficult, it's quite near impossible. American Guides in Europe may work for themselves. They may take their own clientel to Europe and spend some time there guiding with minimal red tape if they are certified. Jason

First, I agree with you Erik. But currently guide services do not threaten private parties and their access. One might even be able to make the arguement that they provide increased access through their educational programs. People who would dispose of human waste in a less than satisfactory manor might learn the right way if they learn how to climb from a guide service. The vast majority of the land closures or quotas currently in place in the U.S. are directly impacted by this one simple issue. Many guide services do provide a service in the mountains. Every year parties that are in trouble are rescued by guides on mountains throughout the Northwest and throughout North America. As stated earlier, RMI guides help keep the "trail" on Rainier in shape for all parties. It is not uncommon for beginning climbers who are uncomfortable with route conditions to shadow guided parties. Guides and guided parties are often responsible for taking down piles of trash and in some cases blue bags that have been left behind by other parties. Though you are right. Guides make their living by working on public land, but to compare a guide to a logging company is a bit extreme. Guides tend to prefer a leave no trace ethic over a leave no forest ethic. You could go so far as to say that every guidebook you have is unethical from a wilderness preservation perspective. First, the authors and publishing company (mostly the publishing company) made money off of public lands; second, trees were cut to make the book; third, people visited the area thus impacting it more... We could get even more extreme -- gear manufacturers are developing gear so that you might go out and climb on public land. Yep seems like their making money off the public land as well... The point is that if you're climbing on public land, then someone has already made money off of that land somewhere. In response to Iain's comment... You're right. It's not right. Currently IFMGA guides from other countries are not allowed to work in the United States. However, fully certified AMGA guides are allowed to work in Europe. This is a serious double standard that the AMGA is trying to fix. European Guides feel very put upon by this system which allows Americans to work in their countries while not allowing them to work here. If things don't start to change, American Guides will lose these privilages. The AMGA is doing its best to standardize the guiding industry in the United States. Theoretically a certain percentage of guides are supposed to be certified by 2006 for the guide services to keep the AMGA accrediation. These certified guides in turn will be responsible for educating those who are not certified until which time they become certified. There are three certifications that an American Guide must obtain before he is an IFMGA mountian guide. They must be certified in ski guiding, alpine guiding, and rock guiding. To obtain any of these certifications requires multiple classes which cost thousands of dollars each and the passing of a test which also costs about fifteen hundred dollars. Sometimes people don't pass their tests and as a result lose their money. Certification is a good thing. It indicates to everyone that this particular person is capeable of climbing and guiding at a certain level and that he or she is professional in the way they treat the environment and other climbers. Jason

There are a lot of misconceptions on your part Caveman. First and foremost, most guides would love to guide things like Ptarmigan Ridge or Liberty Ridge. Not only that, they would not be particularly hard trips to sell. Many clients are not "gapers." In fact, there is a percentage that are high end. Unfortunately, these routes will not be open to guides unless the Park Service changes their policies... Which it looks like might happen based on the article which started this thread. In Washington State, the North Ridge of Stuart, the Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, the North Ridge of Mt. Baker, the Coleman Headwall on Mt. Baker, Frostbite Ridge on Glacier, and even routes like the East Buttress Direct on South Early Winter Spire are guided many times every year. These are not necessarily the hardest routes in the state, but they are moderately difficult and are not for those whom you are calling "gapers." Were the Willis Wall in Chamonix, it would definately be guided. Guides have a slightly different mindset than the average climber. They take pride in getting people up moderately hard climbs safely. Most guides receive a great deal of training in order to bring people up into the mountians safely. There are thousands of people being guided in Washington State every summer. More likely than not, you can only come up with one or two incidents involving clients or guides getting hurt in this state off the top of your head. The whole idea that guides are in some way unsafe and get people hurt on a regular basis is ludicrous. On top of that, the idea that guides are not in shape and cannot climb hard is also a myth. Outside of the state, the Cassin Ridge on Denali has been guided. The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome are guided in Yosemite all the time. The Black Ice Couloir in the Tetons is guided. Hard ice and rock routes around the country are guided every day... When knocking guides and saying that they're gapers or out of shape, think about people like Steve House, Alan Kearney, Jim Nelson, Topher Donahue, Crag Luebben, Miles Smart, Doug Robinson, and all the others you're knocking. Every guide I know is looking for challenging guiding. They are looking for things that engage both them and their clients. Your analysis of the guiding scene in America is not only ignorant, it's simply not based in reality. Jason

Any word on who these guys are? Names? Jason

The courses offered on the AMGA website are professional acreditied avalanche providers. They are oriented toward guides who are ski guides and take people into the backcountry either in helicopters or on backcountry skis. The lower level courses, Levels I and II tend to be a little more mixed company in that there are lots of normal everyday back country skiers. Level III is oriented toward guides and ski patrol. I took my course from Freddy Grossniklaus who has been a backcountry ski guide for thirty years. He has seen literally thousands of avalanches. There is currenlty a movement among avalanche providers to standardize the training across North America. The American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education (AIARE) is slowly becoming the standard. The reason I pointed to the list posted on the AMGA website is because that list points you toward these guys (the AIARE guys) who are considered the best in the business. Jason

Books are good, but the best thing you could do is to take a class. Those who provide the most comprehensive classes are listed on the American Mountain Guides Association website or AMGA.com. I read a lot about avalanches and played with beacons on my own, but taking a class and having someone who is an expert talk about it showed me just how little I'd learned from the books. Jason

Polish Bob feels a little unwanted around here, which is understandable since he was banished. However, he sent me this route description and said it was okay for me to post it. So here's the beta for those who are interested: "It Ain't Over Motherfuckers" Difficulty: D -- Mixed to 90 Degrees Length: Seven Pitches plus some simul-climbing First Ascent: Coley Gentzel, Chris Koziarz, and Polish Bob -- February 2003 Start on the left side of the N. Face of Pyramid in the big snow gully. Ascend the gully for about four hundred feet or half way up. P1: A shallow groove of ice/neve is the start of the route. Go up the goove (80 degrees at first) to some crapy snow and a ledge under an overhanging wall (about 50 m) P2: Go to the right, up a snow/neve ramp (55M) P3: Simul-climb for about 100M on snow to the fifty degree iced up slab on the left edge of the snowfield. The pro here is crappy. p4: Go up a steep groove (about 75 degrees), traverse slightly left, pull into a small left facing corner (90 degrees) then onto some ice and a 20M snowfield (angle left), 55M. P5: Start on 90 degree thin ice onto a little iced up slab and onto a snow ramp. P5&P6: Follow the ramp right. P7: Angle up and left to the final groove and the summit. Gear: 4 knife blades, medium lost arrow, cams from TCU#2 to 3.5 inch, 2 warthogs, 1 spectra, set of stoppers, 2 screws (10 and 13cm) Bob says of the route, "on the crux pitch I found myself camming the shafts of my tools in a vertical crack and scratching my crampons on quarter inch ice. It was one fo the best pitches I have ever climbed in the mountains, period." Coley, if there's anything you think should be added, please post it here for all of those that are going to run out and try to repeat this in the weekends to come. Unfortunately, this came in to late to put in this edition of the ice guide, so this is the only place you'll be able to find this beta until Alex and I do a second edition of the book some time in the distant future. Thanks to Polish Bob for allowing this to be posted. As this route and some of his other endevors prove, he is one of the stronger climbers in the state and should be respected as such. Jason