Jason_Martin

You were probably looking at the Rap Wall, which is -- as Erik said -- for mixed climbing. This wall reportedly sports the most difficult new wave mixed route in the state. Guru is an M9 which, as far as I know, has only been completed by one individual. Jason

I have used neoprene dive gloves for ice climbing on very wet climbs and for skiing in the rain. The biggest problem with the system is that once they get wet it's best to leave them on for the remainder of the day. If you take them off they get cold very quickly and take a bit to warm up again. Jason

I just got back down to the beautiful southwest today. I personally believe that Red Rock -- just outside of Vegas -- has some of the best moderate multi-pitch routes in America. And it can't be beat for winter fun in the sun! Vegas itself is excellent too. Cheap buffetts, show girls, free shows, 99 cent margaritas, free drinks while playing nickle slots, and climbing everywhere! It really can't be beat... Jason

That's Andreas Schmidt on "Flight to Mars" which is in the Alpental vicinity. Jason

The book should be available at your favorite gear shop in just a couple weeks... That is if you're more interested in supporting the shops than Amazon. Jason

I understand the semantics. And I understand that the exact word in question is slightly different than its root. But what you are ignoring is the root. No one in their right mind will use any incarnation of that word if they do not wish to be thought of as a racist. In Seattle, a public school teacher was recently forced to resign when he used the n word as an example of hate language in class. Books -- even those which support the plight of African Americans -- are often banned because the word is in them. College professors and executives alike avoid the word because of its potential repercussions. There is no more controversial word in the english language. I do believe that a dialogue about the word and about its use in the language is a good thing. It's good to understand the history and culture that has defined English. However, the continued malicious use of this word is morally wrong and to include it in a route name or a guidebook, which are essentially fun things open to everyone, takes away from their innocence. It is incredibly ignorant to believe that the vast majority of the populace without a dictionary sitting in front of them will make any distinction between the root word that ends in "er" or "ard" or "ish" or any other series of letters. And if you think differently, I would invite you to use this word in polite company or at work just to see what happens. After you've done this -- if you still have your job -- I have a feeling that you're going to feel a bit dumb when you have to grab the dictionary, look up the word, and show your coworkers that you weren't using hate language... That indeed you were trying to educate them to the proper use of the word so that they too might be able to use the word correctly in polite company. Now back to the subject at hand: Controversy over semantics and history and prejudice are simply not worth it in a climbing guidebook. Jason

Dru -- maybe you should look up the history of the word before you insist that it is not hate language. Smart guy, I believe that you will be the one that is in for a surprise. There is a lot more to words like this than a simple definition. There are entire books written on the use of this particular word and its different incarnations throughout the history of the english language as hate speech. Certainly if you were interested in actually learning something Dru, you might do a little reading: History of the N Word This debate alone is enough to prove that the word is inciniary and should simply be left out of guidebooks. Jason

As Caveman said, those of us who feel some sense of responsibility will not use this kind of language. And those of us who have a reputation to uphold will not use this language either. I truly do find this type of hate language offensive. And the reality is that those people who use this language around the generally liberal climbing community will find themselves ostracized. The result is that a responsible guidebook author will not write this type of language in his or her book and will certainly not put in some sort of appendix with the original names. You just won' t find this in mainstream american guidebooks... And I am thankful for this. Jason

I belive that the issue of censoring names is more complicated that it might seem at first. On the one hand I believe that the vast majority of names should remain. Names with popular explitives that most climbers use on a regular basis are perfectly acceptable. Most climbers will not find a climb with "fucking" or "shit" or any number of other words in it offensive. As a result these types of words should not be censored. On the other hand, there are words and phrases which are truly offensive to the vast majority of climbers. Words and phrases which are clearly biggoted in nature should be avoided by those who are naming routes and WILL be avoided by guidebook authors. Words like the N word in particular say more about the first ascentionists than the quality of the route. Whether or not the word is an allusion to a film doesn't matter. Many will assume that the first ascentionists were racists and biggots. And no reputable publisher will allow this type of language in their literature. As a guidebook author I have no problem publishing language that is acceptable by the vast majority of the climbing community. But I will not include route names in my books which are racially prejudiced or homophobic in nature and I believe that most climbers appreciate this limited censorship. Jason

Just want to keep this at the top for awhile... J.

I don't know if this particular info has been placed on this site yet... So here it is: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=161-09092003 Assistant Secretary Lynn Scarlett: Recreational Fee Demonstration Program Enhances Visitor Facilities and Services 9/9/03 4:00:00 PM To: National Desk Contact: Joan Moody of the U.S. Department of the Interior, 202-208-6416 WASHINGTON, Sept. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- In testimony today before the Subcommittee on National Parks of the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources, Assistant Secretary for Policy, Management and Budget Lynn Scarlett stated that S. 1107 should be amended to allow for a new interagency national pass, standardizing recreation fees, and forming partnerships with states and gateway communities. "Our suggested amendments to S. 1107 are the result of a great deal of analysis and discussion through the Interagency Recreation Fee Leadership Council," said Scarlett. "These concepts were developed from the lessons learned in administering the Fee Demo program." Assistant Secretary Scarlett recommended that in addition to the National Park Service, the permanent program should include the Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and USDA Forest Service. The creation of a new annual interagency pass would expand the National Parks Passport to cover all participating agencies and would consolidate the Golden Passes established under the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act. Consolidating these passes would decrease visitor confusion about various agency passes and shift the emphasis to recreation opportunities on federal lands, Scarlett testified. In order to standardize recreation fees and minimize fee layering, a new system of "basic" and "expanded" recreation fees would be consistently applied across all agencies and would minimize fee layering by ensuring that the basic fee covers the primary attraction site. By developing partnerships with states and gateway communities, all can work together in concert to promote tourism and better serve visitors. Such efforts are consistent with Secretary Norton's "Four C's" -- Communication, Consultation, and Cooperation, all in the service of Conservation. The Fee Demo was developed in 1996 in direct response to the federal agencies' concern about growing backlog maintenance needs. The program allowed participating agencies to retain a majority of recreation fees at the site collected and reinvest those fees into enhancing visitor facilities and services. "A permanent recreation fee program enhances the Department's efforts to support the president's initiative to address the deferred maintenance backlog at our national parks," Scarlett said. "Authorization of a permanent program would allow the agencies to better serve visitors by making long-term investments, and creating more partnerships." Assistant Secretary Scarlett emphasized that while much has been learned from administering the Fee Demo program, the proposed permanent recreation fee program would be dynamic and responsive to new lessons. http://www.usnewswire.com/ -0- /© 2003 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ =======BEGIN ACTION ALERT======== Subject: Alert! E-mail DC on Fee Demo! Please send a quick e-mail to DC by Tuesday September 23rd, opposing Fee Demo on lands administered by the US Forest Service, the BLM and the US Fish & Wildlife Service. Senator Craig Thomas (R-WY) is holding a public hearing on 9.9.03 on his bill, S.1107, which will make Fee Demo permanent ONLY for the National Park Service. The public record is open for citizen comments on this bill for two weeks after 9.9.03, until 9.23.03. Please remember that with Congress hesitating to make Fee Demo permanent except in National Parks, this is the year to keep the pressure on! e-mails are quick and easy - can you help generate more? (Please note, we first sent out this alert on 7.27.03, only to hear that the public hearing then scheduled for 7.29.03 was postponed at one day's notice. You may, therefore, have already responded to this alert. If possible, can you resubmit the same email?) WHERE TO SEND YOUR E-MAIL: megan_badasch@energy.senate.gov WHAT TO SAY ** Please thank Senator Thomas for NOT including permanent recreation fees for the US Forest Service, BLM or US Fish & Wildlife Service! ** Add your own comments about Fee Demo in National Parks. Though not so controversial as forest fees, there are two sides to Park Service fees. (See BACKGROUND, below.) ** State briefly why you DON'T like Fee Demo in the other three agencies. BASIC SAMPLE LETTER (please add to it and use your own words! Look-alike e-mails carry less weight.) Senator Craig Thomas, Chair, Subcommittee on National Parks, 364 Dirksen, Washington, DC 20510. Dear Senator Thomas, Thank you for not including permanent fees for all four public lands agencies in S.1107. Recent increases in the entrance fees have led to a drop in visitation. I strongly object to paying a fee to visit undeveloped public lands managed by the Forest Service, BLM and US Fish & Wildlife Service, but I don't mind a small fee for a car campground or boat launch and am willing to pay modest National Park entrance fees. Please include this letter in the public record for the hearings on S.1107. Thank you. Yours, sincerely, (name and address) BACKGROUND ON PARK SERVICE FEE DEMO - Park Service fees have some major differences from Fee Demo in the other three agencies - ** Parks had staffed entry kiosks before Fee Demo, so less money was spent on collecting fees, compared with, for example, new forest fees. ** Parks tend to be destinations (rather than, say, the National Forest adjacent to your backyard). ** Parks usually have more amenities than National Forests, and visitors expect (at least some of) these. OTHER POINTS - ** Fee Demo allows the Park Service to keep and use entry fees that previously were sent off to the US Treasury. This can lead to further commercialization. ** National Parks are now adding further new fees (on top of entry fees) such as backcountry hiking and camping fees, parking fees, etc. ** Entry fees doubled (or more) with Fee Demo, which may be one reason visitation is down. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott Silver Wild Wilderness 248 NW Wilmington Ave. Bend, OR 97701 phone: 541-385-5261 e-mail: ssilver@wildwilderness.org Internet: http://www.wildwilderness.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- "the most powerful weapon an oppressor has is the mind of the oppressed"; Steven Biko

I have actually experimented with the knot system on a relatively dry glacier. There was little snow left at the time, but the first butterfly knot -- about a meter from the falling climber -- caught the fall nine out of ten times. Other climbers on the rope team didn't even have to self-arrest. With a spare prussik and good knowledge of how to use prussiks, it is not that difficult to extract oneself in this situation. The difficulty comes when a climber has to extract his or her partner. With a solid understanding of crevasse rescue this isn't all that hard either... If you know how to put together a good hauling system, the ability to pass a knot within the system isn't that big of a deal. Of course practice makes perfect. If you play with this system a bit, you might find that you like it. As far as the knots getting caught up on things, the difficulty tends to come more in the actual climbing than in a rescue. The worst situation for knots tends to be when there are a lot of penitentes on the glacier. I personally don't mind the periodic knot getting caught on the ice. The extra peice of mind that the knots provide are worth it. Jason

This unfortunate attack on the parking lot happened a bit earlier than Thursday night. I saw the cars with broken windows on Thursday morning. At that point I counted over twenty cars with broken windows. As there are a lot of people in the backcountry, there is the possiblity that they were hit as long ago as tuesday night... Like Greg, I noticed that expensive items were left behind. My partner hypothesized that the vandals were looking for wallets that hikers and climbers have left behind... Jason

Though you may have seen people use the Reverso for soloing it was not designed for such. You should avoid using climbing gear in ways other than what is generally considered acceptable by the manufacturer. If you wish to solo, buy a device that has been designed for soloing. Instead of attacking people who are somewhat taken aback by your proposal, you should pay attention to their responses. Ego has probably injured or killed more climbers than anything else. Jason

There are a lot of different concepts being discussed here and I think some of them are getting slightly confused; so I'd like to throw in my own two cents... This is true... However, there are double rope systems that require both ropes to be clipped to every piece of gear. Different companies promote different double rope systems and it's important for one to understand what type of system a given rope is meant to be used for. Some double rope systems are such that one should not trust a single line to arrest a fall. Ice floss is a great example of a rope system wherein one should clip both ropes to every piece. That said, even with thicker systems (9 mm for example) you may discover that clipping every piece with opposite ropes creates a tremendous snarl at the belay. This particular method requires the most practice. However, a fall will not load the last piece the same way as if both ropes are clipped through all the pieces. That said, you may decide to clip both ropes through every piece to avoid a snarl at the belay. This is okay, but you should understand the consequences of a fall. The advantage: Less snarling. The disadvantage: Higher liklihood of problems with a particular piece in the event of a fall. It's a toss up, either way you go you may have problems. Whatever system you go with, it is very important to make sure that the ropes are different colors so that you can remember specifics like which rope to pull on after a rappel. Another method discussed here is the method of dragging a rope. Some are advocating that the leader pull the rope and some the follower. In some cases, where there is a high liklihood of a rope becoming stuck, it is a good idea for the leader to pull the rope. Another scenario that is very important to pay attention to is whether or not there is a party beneath you. It can be very frustrating to be behind a party which has a rope hanging down in your way while you're trying to climb. When you have a party beneath you, the polite thing to do is to have the leader drag the rope. There are many climbs and many scenarios wherein it is perfectly acceptable for the second to drag the rope. If there is a low liklihood of the rope getting stuck beneath you and there are no parties below, then there is no reason not to drag the second rope. Many smooth granite climbs are very unlikely to eat a rap line. Ice climbs are unlikely to eat a rap line... There are a lot of situations where it is fine for the second to drag the rope. It just comes down to what you are comfortable with. Having a second rope in a pack as a rap line is of course perfectly acceptable. It can also be very nice in that nothing is dangling down anywhere. The diameter of this rope is up to you. What do you feel comfortable with and what kind of rappel are you going to set? The jammed knot technique is not that popular. That doesn't mean that it isn't effective. On a straight forward rappel route it is perfectly acceptable. However it is very important that the jammed knot is large enough not to get caught in rappel rings. It is also important not to employ this technique directly through slings as more likely than not it will fail. There are two problems with the jammed knot technique which I have discovered. The first is that it is impossible to adjust the knot over a lip or some other feature as you might be able to do with two ropes tied together. The jammed knot has to be jammed for the system to work. The second problem is that the pull line -- usually very thin cord -- can be very problematic if it gets tangled. My experience is that thin line likes to get tangled a lot more than fatter rope. For a begining leader on their first trip out to a climb which requires double rope rappels, I would not advocate the jammed knot technique or any of the double rope systems. These require vigilance and should be attempted by people who feel confident in all of the other aspects of their outing first. It is my feeling that beginners should either drag a rope or carry one in their pack... The simplist techniques are essental for an understanding of their more complex counterparts. That's my two cents. Good luck on your climb! Jason

I've often thought that a board like this would be good. It would be incredibly helpful to people who use cc.com as a resource for research. Jason

This is what I meant. I suspect people were using running belays on snow and ice first... Sorry about the confusion in my last post. Jason

It makes sense to me that simul-climbing started on snow and ice and then evolved to include rock. I have no evidence to support this, but I suspect that there were people simul-climbing steep snow and ice in the Northwest long before the technique evolved enough to be employed on the rock. Jason

The glaciers are not very sketch at all... They are similar to those you named that you've already soloed. You'll probably be fine... If you don't plan on climbing, you might consider doing it a bit faster than five days. Jason

Some time ago there was a post on climbingwashington.com about rockfall on Gunsight. I just quickly went through that website and couldn't find it. I'm willing to bet if you cruise around there a bit, the beta might turn up. Jason

I can´t seem to open the file and read the report... So no comment on that. However, I thought it might be of interest for you to know that the AMGA teaches the 5:1 raise in their rock courses. I suspect if you saw it once you´d be able to build it just as easily. Jason

Currently a limited number of guide services do have permits for the area... From the Leavenworth rock area to Stuart and the Enchantments. It is unlikely that this will change. As stated above most people complain about other groups in this region that are not professionally guided groups. And lastly, most guides do not carry a copy of their permit unless it is required within the permit. In this particular area guides usually have to make a commercial reservation with the Forest Service who then knows who is supposed to be in the area. Jason

Left? That doesn't make sense to me. Are you sure you don't mean right? There was a minor peak to the left and left of that there was a cornice which appeared to drop off steeply on the other side. However, It did look like it was feasable to go down to the right of the steep gully on the other side of some rocks. I suspect it's far less steep to get down there, but you would probably have a little more altitude to gain to attain the Ruth-Icy saddle once down. I did notice a carin on the way down to the notch on the west side of Ruth -- the notch that you use to attain the gully... Is this what you're talking about? Anyway, I'd be curious to know about an alternate route down as I will probably be going back there in the future. Jason

Just did it the other day. The keys to this particular traverse appear to revolve around route finding after completing Ruth. So here is a quick idea of where to go. Climb Ruth then drop down to the obvious notch. After going through the notch aim for a gully to the right of a rocky satellite peak of Ruth. Drop down an steep gully and then traverse to the Ruth-Icy saddle. From the saddle aim for the right side of the right summit of Icy Peak. Go around to the back side (southwest side) of Icy and climb the first third class snow/rock gully on the left. This will bring you to the summit. I was up there on Thursday and based on the summit register it appears that we were the first party to summit since last fall... Good luck. Jason

A lot of climbers refer to this as the French Coil. Before ripping on the French, don't forget that alpinism was born in France and some of the best climbing in the world is there as well as many of the best climbers. I sometimes use the over the neck method for both French and double butterfly style coiling. Usually I'll use over the neck when I am pumped out after a climb. Some people with small hands have to use this style because a large MM or sixty meter rope is just too much for them to hold. Jason