Jason_Martin

Just want to keep this at the top for awhile... J.

I don't know if this particular info has been placed on this site yet... So here it is: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=161-09092003 Assistant Secretary Lynn Scarlett: Recreational Fee Demonstration Program Enhances Visitor Facilities and Services 9/9/03 4:00:00 PM To: National Desk Contact: Joan Moody of the U.S. Department of the Interior, 202-208-6416 WASHINGTON, Sept. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- In testimony today before the Subcommittee on National Parks of the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources, Assistant Secretary for Policy, Management and Budget Lynn Scarlett stated that S. 1107 should be amended to allow for a new interagency national pass, standardizing recreation fees, and forming partnerships with states and gateway communities. "Our suggested amendments to S. 1107 are the result of a great deal of analysis and discussion through the Interagency Recreation Fee Leadership Council," said Scarlett. "These concepts were developed from the lessons learned in administering the Fee Demo program." Assistant Secretary Scarlett recommended that in addition to the National Park Service, the permanent program should include the Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and USDA Forest Service. The creation of a new annual interagency pass would expand the National Parks Passport to cover all participating agencies and would consolidate the Golden Passes established under the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act. Consolidating these passes would decrease visitor confusion about various agency passes and shift the emphasis to recreation opportunities on federal lands, Scarlett testified. In order to standardize recreation fees and minimize fee layering, a new system of "basic" and "expanded" recreation fees would be consistently applied across all agencies and would minimize fee layering by ensuring that the basic fee covers the primary attraction site. By developing partnerships with states and gateway communities, all can work together in concert to promote tourism and better serve visitors. Such efforts are consistent with Secretary Norton's "Four C's" -- Communication, Consultation, and Cooperation, all in the service of Conservation. The Fee Demo was developed in 1996 in direct response to the federal agencies' concern about growing backlog maintenance needs. The program allowed participating agencies to retain a majority of recreation fees at the site collected and reinvest those fees into enhancing visitor facilities and services. "A permanent recreation fee program enhances the Department's efforts to support the president's initiative to address the deferred maintenance backlog at our national parks," Scarlett said. "Authorization of a permanent program would allow the agencies to better serve visitors by making long-term investments, and creating more partnerships." Assistant Secretary Scarlett emphasized that while much has been learned from administering the Fee Demo program, the proposed permanent recreation fee program would be dynamic and responsive to new lessons. http://www.usnewswire.com/ -0- /© 2003 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ =======BEGIN ACTION ALERT======== Subject: Alert! E-mail DC on Fee Demo! Please send a quick e-mail to DC by Tuesday September 23rd, opposing Fee Demo on lands administered by the US Forest Service, the BLM and the US Fish & Wildlife Service. Senator Craig Thomas (R-WY) is holding a public hearing on 9.9.03 on his bill, S.1107, which will make Fee Demo permanent ONLY for the National Park Service. The public record is open for citizen comments on this bill for two weeks after 9.9.03, until 9.23.03. Please remember that with Congress hesitating to make Fee Demo permanent except in National Parks, this is the year to keep the pressure on! e-mails are quick and easy - can you help generate more? (Please note, we first sent out this alert on 7.27.03, only to hear that the public hearing then scheduled for 7.29.03 was postponed at one day's notice. You may, therefore, have already responded to this alert. If possible, can you resubmit the same email?) WHERE TO SEND YOUR E-MAIL: megan_badasch@energy.senate.gov WHAT TO SAY ** Please thank Senator Thomas for NOT including permanent recreation fees for the US Forest Service, BLM or US Fish & Wildlife Service! ** Add your own comments about Fee Demo in National Parks. Though not so controversial as forest fees, there are two sides to Park Service fees. (See BACKGROUND, below.) ** State briefly why you DON'T like Fee Demo in the other three agencies. BASIC SAMPLE LETTER (please add to it and use your own words! Look-alike e-mails carry less weight.) Senator Craig Thomas, Chair, Subcommittee on National Parks, 364 Dirksen, Washington, DC 20510. Dear Senator Thomas, Thank you for not including permanent fees for all four public lands agencies in S.1107. Recent increases in the entrance fees have led to a drop in visitation. I strongly object to paying a fee to visit undeveloped public lands managed by the Forest Service, BLM and US Fish & Wildlife Service, but I don't mind a small fee for a car campground or boat launch and am willing to pay modest National Park entrance fees. Please include this letter in the public record for the hearings on S.1107. Thank you. Yours, sincerely, (name and address) BACKGROUND ON PARK SERVICE FEE DEMO - Park Service fees have some major differences from Fee Demo in the other three agencies - ** Parks had staffed entry kiosks before Fee Demo, so less money was spent on collecting fees, compared with, for example, new forest fees. ** Parks tend to be destinations (rather than, say, the National Forest adjacent to your backyard). ** Parks usually have more amenities than National Forests, and visitors expect (at least some of) these. OTHER POINTS - ** Fee Demo allows the Park Service to keep and use entry fees that previously were sent off to the US Treasury. This can lead to further commercialization. ** National Parks are now adding further new fees (on top of entry fees) such as backcountry hiking and camping fees, parking fees, etc. ** Entry fees doubled (or more) with Fee Demo, which may be one reason visitation is down. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott Silver Wild Wilderness 248 NW Wilmington Ave. Bend, OR 97701 phone: 541-385-5261 e-mail: ssilver@wildwilderness.org Internet: http://www.wildwilderness.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- "the most powerful weapon an oppressor has is the mind of the oppressed"; Steven Biko

I have actually experimented with the knot system on a relatively dry glacier. There was little snow left at the time, but the first butterfly knot -- about a meter from the falling climber -- caught the fall nine out of ten times. Other climbers on the rope team didn't even have to self-arrest. With a spare prussik and good knowledge of how to use prussiks, it is not that difficult to extract oneself in this situation. The difficulty comes when a climber has to extract his or her partner. With a solid understanding of crevasse rescue this isn't all that hard either... If you know how to put together a good hauling system, the ability to pass a knot within the system isn't that big of a deal. Of course practice makes perfect. If you play with this system a bit, you might find that you like it. As far as the knots getting caught up on things, the difficulty tends to come more in the actual climbing than in a rescue. The worst situation for knots tends to be when there are a lot of penitentes on the glacier. I personally don't mind the periodic knot getting caught on the ice. The extra peice of mind that the knots provide are worth it. Jason

This unfortunate attack on the parking lot happened a bit earlier than Thursday night. I saw the cars with broken windows on Thursday morning. At that point I counted over twenty cars with broken windows. As there are a lot of people in the backcountry, there is the possiblity that they were hit as long ago as tuesday night... Like Greg, I noticed that expensive items were left behind. My partner hypothesized that the vandals were looking for wallets that hikers and climbers have left behind... Jason

Though you may have seen people use the Reverso for soloing it was not designed for such. You should avoid using climbing gear in ways other than what is generally considered acceptable by the manufacturer. If you wish to solo, buy a device that has been designed for soloing. Instead of attacking people who are somewhat taken aback by your proposal, you should pay attention to their responses. Ego has probably injured or killed more climbers than anything else. Jason

There are a lot of different concepts being discussed here and I think some of them are getting slightly confused; so I'd like to throw in my own two cents... This is true... However, there are double rope systems that require both ropes to be clipped to every piece of gear. Different companies promote different double rope systems and it's important for one to understand what type of system a given rope is meant to be used for. Some double rope systems are such that one should not trust a single line to arrest a fall. Ice floss is a great example of a rope system wherein one should clip both ropes to every piece. That said, even with thicker systems (9 mm for example) you may discover that clipping every piece with opposite ropes creates a tremendous snarl at the belay. This particular method requires the most practice. However, a fall will not load the last piece the same way as if both ropes are clipped through all the pieces. That said, you may decide to clip both ropes through every piece to avoid a snarl at the belay. This is okay, but you should understand the consequences of a fall. The advantage: Less snarling. The disadvantage: Higher liklihood of problems with a particular piece in the event of a fall. It's a toss up, either way you go you may have problems. Whatever system you go with, it is very important to make sure that the ropes are different colors so that you can remember specifics like which rope to pull on after a rappel. Another method discussed here is the method of dragging a rope. Some are advocating that the leader pull the rope and some the follower. In some cases, where there is a high liklihood of a rope becoming stuck, it is a good idea for the leader to pull the rope. Another scenario that is very important to pay attention to is whether or not there is a party beneath you. It can be very frustrating to be behind a party which has a rope hanging down in your way while you're trying to climb. When you have a party beneath you, the polite thing to do is to have the leader drag the rope. There are many climbs and many scenarios wherein it is perfectly acceptable for the second to drag the rope. If there is a low liklihood of the rope getting stuck beneath you and there are no parties below, then there is no reason not to drag the second rope. Many smooth granite climbs are very unlikely to eat a rap line. Ice climbs are unlikely to eat a rap line... There are a lot of situations where it is fine for the second to drag the rope. It just comes down to what you are comfortable with. Having a second rope in a pack as a rap line is of course perfectly acceptable. It can also be very nice in that nothing is dangling down anywhere. The diameter of this rope is up to you. What do you feel comfortable with and what kind of rappel are you going to set? The jammed knot technique is not that popular. That doesn't mean that it isn't effective. On a straight forward rappel route it is perfectly acceptable. However it is very important that the jammed knot is large enough not to get caught in rappel rings. It is also important not to employ this technique directly through slings as more likely than not it will fail. There are two problems with the jammed knot technique which I have discovered. The first is that it is impossible to adjust the knot over a lip or some other feature as you might be able to do with two ropes tied together. The jammed knot has to be jammed for the system to work. The second problem is that the pull line -- usually very thin cord -- can be very problematic if it gets tangled. My experience is that thin line likes to get tangled a lot more than fatter rope. For a begining leader on their first trip out to a climb which requires double rope rappels, I would not advocate the jammed knot technique or any of the double rope systems. These require vigilance and should be attempted by people who feel confident in all of the other aspects of their outing first. It is my feeling that beginners should either drag a rope or carry one in their pack... The simplist techniques are essental for an understanding of their more complex counterparts. That's my two cents. Good luck on your climb! Jason

I've often thought that a board like this would be good. It would be incredibly helpful to people who use cc.com as a resource for research. Jason

This is what I meant. I suspect people were using running belays on snow and ice first... Sorry about the confusion in my last post. Jason

It makes sense to me that simul-climbing started on snow and ice and then evolved to include rock. I have no evidence to support this, but I suspect that there were people simul-climbing steep snow and ice in the Northwest long before the technique evolved enough to be employed on the rock. Jason

The glaciers are not very sketch at all... They are similar to those you named that you've already soloed. You'll probably be fine... If you don't plan on climbing, you might consider doing it a bit faster than five days. Jason

Some time ago there was a post on climbingwashington.com about rockfall on Gunsight. I just quickly went through that website and couldn't find it. I'm willing to bet if you cruise around there a bit, the beta might turn up. Jason

I can´t seem to open the file and read the report... So no comment on that. However, I thought it might be of interest for you to know that the AMGA teaches the 5:1 raise in their rock courses. I suspect if you saw it once you´d be able to build it just as easily. Jason

Currently a limited number of guide services do have permits for the area... From the Leavenworth rock area to Stuart and the Enchantments. It is unlikely that this will change. As stated above most people complain about other groups in this region that are not professionally guided groups. And lastly, most guides do not carry a copy of their permit unless it is required within the permit. In this particular area guides usually have to make a commercial reservation with the Forest Service who then knows who is supposed to be in the area. Jason

Left? That doesn't make sense to me. Are you sure you don't mean right? There was a minor peak to the left and left of that there was a cornice which appeared to drop off steeply on the other side. However, It did look like it was feasable to go down to the right of the steep gully on the other side of some rocks. I suspect it's far less steep to get down there, but you would probably have a little more altitude to gain to attain the Ruth-Icy saddle once down. I did notice a carin on the way down to the notch on the west side of Ruth -- the notch that you use to attain the gully... Is this what you're talking about? Anyway, I'd be curious to know about an alternate route down as I will probably be going back there in the future. Jason

Just did it the other day. The keys to this particular traverse appear to revolve around route finding after completing Ruth. So here is a quick idea of where to go. Climb Ruth then drop down to the obvious notch. After going through the notch aim for a gully to the right of a rocky satellite peak of Ruth. Drop down an steep gully and then traverse to the Ruth-Icy saddle. From the saddle aim for the right side of the right summit of Icy Peak. Go around to the back side (southwest side) of Icy and climb the first third class snow/rock gully on the left. This will bring you to the summit. I was up there on Thursday and based on the summit register it appears that we were the first party to summit since last fall... Good luck. Jason

A lot of climbers refer to this as the French Coil. Before ripping on the French, don't forget that alpinism was born in France and some of the best climbing in the world is there as well as many of the best climbers. I sometimes use the over the neck method for both French and double butterfly style coiling. Usually I'll use over the neck when I am pumped out after a climb. Some people with small hands have to use this style because a large MM or sixty meter rope is just too much for them to hold. Jason

I use it pretty regularly... However, I usually still flake the rope because periodically there can be a tangle here or there. Flaking goes much faster though. The double-rope butterfly has the advantage that it coils a lot faster, so when I'm in a hurry I use this. Oh and by the way. You should look at the copyright conversation thread. Jason

If you write it you own it. If somebody else uses something you've written in a book or magazine article without your consent, you can sue them. Permission must be acquired from a writer before anything they have written can be legally reproduced. If a photo is taken from this website and submitted for publication by someone other than the photographer the person who stole it could be sued as well... You may however, quote something from a site as long as the source is noted. For more information on this, log onto: Copyright Myths Jason

Alpinfox, I have to agree with Retro on this... Beginners should start with passive pro and there is a very important reason that they should do this, but I'll get to that in a minute. First, you're quote from Freedom of the Hills is a quote that makes an assumption. The assumption is that the climber has knowledge of both passive and active pro. For a climber with a solid background in both types of protection, cams tend to be easier to place. For a beginner, it is often hard for them to see whether or not their placement is correct. Indeed, I've taught beginning lead courses many many times and perhaps eighty percent of the cam placements are poorly placed; whereas maybe twenty percent of the passive pro is poorly placed. The problem with your Freedom of the Hills quote is that "easier to place" is relative. I don't believe "easier" applies to a beginner. An advanced climber sketched out on lead should be able to fire in a cam correctly without even thinking about it. This is not how a beginner will employ their cams. Now for the main reason that a beginner should start with passive pro. If a beginner starts with cams he or she will begin to rely on them. Because cams have all kinds of moving parts they appear to be safer than stoppers. A person who does not start with passive pro tends to learn cams and then get stuck on them. The result is that you will see somebody carrying ninety some odd cams on a one pitch climb because they don't know how to use anything else effectively. Perhaps the wisest rack for the beginning leader would include a set of stoppers (or the eqivalent), a few tricams, some hexes, and only one or two cams. A rack like this should be employed for at least a year before more cams are added... And even then they should be added sparingly. The time tested result of this plan tends to be a climber who relys on passive pro when they can and uses cams when they absolutely need a piece which is "easier to place." One means by which many people choose to practice leading is referred to as "mock leading." In this particular scenario the leader is toproped while pulling a rope up behind him. He places pro as if he is on lead and clips it to the rope he is trailing. If you don't have two ropes, you can simply toprope with one end and tie into the other end like it's the sharp end... Hopefully, this info will help you out... Jason

Thinker, I'm not arguing that there have been many articles about elite climbers soloing alone. I just don't think Jim Bob Joe who sees this type of material is going to suddenly decide that he's going to solo Mt. Rainier... I don't mean to pick on you... I'm mostly annoyed with those who have recently been so judgemental about soloists. When this guy got hurt in Canyonlands I guarantee that thousands of so called outdoors people who have been car camping once or twice in their lives were shaking their heads and saying "he shouldn't have went alone." I don't think these recent events are inspiring people to solo, but they are inspiring people to be overly critical of soloists. Jason

I really don't think that an article on a Yahoo News webpage is going to be the cause of numerous solo accidents on Mt. Rainier. Climbing Magazine #221 ran an extensive article on the history of free solo rock climbing in North America. In issue #222, they got hammered by letters from irrate climbers who didn't see the article as valuable. I guess I just have a hard time with all the people who are overly judgemental about soloists. First, the history of free soloing in America is an important part of overall climbing history. Second, most soloists know exactly what they are getting themselves into whether they are climbing a glacier or an ice climb or a rock, they tend to be experienced people who understand the risks they are taking. Third, as long as the solosit is not damaging another person's experience they have every right to climb in the manner that they wish and should not have to deal with others giving them crap while they are trying to climb... You might be able to argue that if a soloist fell near another party that this would result in ruining that party's experience. In other words, they would have to help with a rescue... Sure, you could make that arguement, but how many of us have actually had to rescue soloists? I've seen quite a few, and I've been involved in a lot of rescues over the years...but I've never had to rescue a soloist. I just don't think that articles in Climbing Magazine or articles in Yahoo News are going to result in a major soloist revolution... Jason

I'm glad Glen's not climbing anymore. The last thing we need are more people in the mountains who don't know how to take care of their shit. Pack Your Shit Out! Jason

I'll tell you guys something... Mike is a hell of a trooper. The day after the accident I went in to retrieve Mike's gear from "The Fox." I've climbed the route a number of times and have always disliked the approach. Though it's short by Red Rock standards, most of it is a third and fourth class scramble up slabs and cactus choked gullies. As I approached to get the gear I couldn't help imagining Mike crawling down this thing. I don't think Joe Simpson ever had to wiggle himself over scrub oak and cacti on his epic. Periodically on the approach I saw little patches of grass where it was clear someone had stopped and laid down for awhile. Man o' man, it was seriously hard core for him to crawl out of there. The hospitals down here suck. Because there is no cap on malpractice suits and malpractice insurance is so high, doctors are leaving the state like crazy. I once found a guy with a compound fracture in his leg. Once we got him to the hospital, they had him lay on the floor in the waiting room among all the other beat-up people for three hours before they even brought him back into the hospital proper. The moral of this story and Mike's is: Don't get hurt in Red Rock, Mt. Charleston, Wheeler Peak, Clark Mountain, Cave Rock, or whereever else you might climb in Nevada. There are two ironies to this whole craziness. First, at a climbers cleanup on Saturday I was told that only a week before Mike got hurt another climber was doing exactly the same thing (top-rope soloing on the same route) and had almost the exact same epic. The differences being this climber rappelled off the end of his ropes and broke one foot... The other irony to this is that Mike's roommate is a climber who broke both ankles in November... At least he's in a supportive household. Get well soon. I think everyone here is with you and is thinking about you! It's all about drinking lots of beer and watching lots of movies this spring. You'll be back on your feet before you know it. Jason

This is a very controversial subject. Rather than tell you my own opinions, here is a link to an excellent article on the subject written by a world class ski mountianeering guide: Skiing Glaciers Hope this helps, Jason

Tape. It's sad, but the only reason I say this is because if you wear hand jammies people will make fun of you behind your back. Jason