AlpineK

I know people (including me) who are experts at drinking in climbing area parking lots. I think we could add a lot to your team. Can we be part of your club?

I can only hope that crazyjz never gets a job with the State Department. Yes you have a right to post whatever you want on the internet, but after you post you should be ready to deal with others negative opinions. In Scott's case his web site seems to be a temple to himself. The West Butt gets climbed hundereds of times a year. I for one am not impressed, and I wish Scott would have a better sense of shame. Unless he has some new angle on the ascent of the West Butt a good editor or publisher would tell him to scrap his web site. I hope Scott has a successful and fun ascent, but I hope he can learn a sense of proportion. jim, crazyjz has done a number of climbs that are more impressive than those found on Scott's web site. Sure he brags to his friends, but he has yet to set up a web page devoted to himself.

Exactly

He was all in pink, and he had this amazing easter bonnet on.

I saw a guy skiing in a tutu at Washington Pass last weekend. Was that Alex?

Not to date myself or anything, but I tried the N face in '85. At the time we scrambled for about 3,000' alongside the Berg glacier and then headed up the middle. It looked worse from across the lake. My advice is: Get some good current info on the glacier and avoid long periods of hot weather. When we were up there the face would start avalanching the second the sun hit it. One other bit of advice don't underestimate a rating of 5.9 A2 in the rockies. The routs are a lot harder than anything at Index.

I don't know what kind of social interaction you have when you climb Alex, but most conversations with people I climb with usually border if not completely cross into dilution. You may be very intelectual in all your conversations, but I don't think you should force everyone to see things your way. Spray is in a seperate section, so you can have serious conversations about climbing without having to shovel through a bunch of BS. If you eliminate the spray section you will have to see it return to the climbers board. I should note that I have seen you contribute to spray and then delete all of your posts due to embarrassment (I suppose). Serious discussions are great, but if thats all you do then don't you think that makes you dull? I think you need to get in touch with your inner moron.

I liked the old Fred bolts. Sketch!!

Tomrogers, Without the efforts of many climbers there would be no Alpine Lakes Wilderness, North Cascades National Park. David Brower past president of the Siera Club did the first ascent of Ship Rock. The Mountaineers, despite many bad things, have done more to promote the preservation of all those scenic shots you like to take than you are ever likely to do. If you ban everyone from the wilderness then there will be no group to advocate the preservation of it. I think there are many groups that have a right to our public lands. Yes there will always be impacts; the important question is how do we minimize the impacts. I think noise and exhaust are subjects that can be solved. People getting in your photo is just another problem like lighting that photographers should deal with without whining.

Snowmobilers and snowmobile manufacturers have really shot themselves in the foot. If they had decent muffelers and 4 cycle engines snowmobiles would have a lot better acceptance by other outdoor users. Instead they put out way too much nasty exhaust and are much louder than they need to be. I stand by my earlier statements about the trash I found on Baker. We packed up beer for our ski trip, but we caried out the empty cans; every climber I know would have the same ethic. While Everest base camp is an example of bad enviromental practices of climbers, Washington state is full of trashed areas due to snowmobilers, dirt bikers or 4wd nuts. All this being said I do not want snowmobiles, dirt bikes, or 4wds banned from public land. However snowmobiles need real mufflers and 4 cycle engines and snowmobilers need to have more respect for our public lands. P.S. To anyone who packs more than 3 beers into the mountains. Wiskey has a much better alcohol to weight ratio. [This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-15-2001).] [This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-15-2001).]

I second that. I've been to the bugs in June, and I can't say I would recomend the experience.

Last june I skied up Baker via the Easton. I found a snowmobile windshield, lots of cigarette butts, and empty beer cans. I don't think climbers are smoking and I don't think many climbers would carry a 12 pack of bud light on their back. I've been hiking and seen plenty of dirt bikers and such trashing meadows. I know I'm generalizing, but I think the mentality of people who engage in snowmobiling, or other motor sports, is one of total disregard for their environment. Snowmobiles could be a lot quiter if they had a real muffler, but then everybody within a mile wouldn't know how macho the snowmobiler was. I would like to declare open season on snowmobilers, but I know the snowmobilers are probably better armed. [This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 04-13-2001).]

Hey zdgf, I thought you were going stop checking this web site. Shouldn't you be busy hugging a tree, or was that raping a tree?

Serpentine crack on Liberty Bell was first climbed by Fred Becky. He used chunks of wood to protect the 2nd pitch. Does that make wood a traditional wide crack anchor at Washington Pass?

Alex, I thought the whole point of spray was to seperate and create a place for mindless drivel. I agree zdfg picked the right place to post. I didn't follow his arguement. Even in the pre internet days in Washington climbers squabled over silly things. But now thanks to modern technology all you have to do is log on to see it. If we were all mature we wouldn't even look at this section.

zdfg, If your so against this site why did you register? You can post without registering. I grew up here too. I agree that more people suck, but there are lots of native slack-jawed MFers in Washington.

The clasic route on Castleton tower is good, and I hear there are some good routes on the north side. You should rent this stupid movie called, "Slaughter of the Inocent," befor you go . It was partly filmed on Castelton.

Just for the record I have writen people about fee use, however it's the confrontations like I described above that gets one motivated.

A few years back 2 friends and I met up with 2 rangers at the Colchuck lake parking lot. My buddy, "M," who was the most vocal got a $100 ticket for not signing out for a day hike and I got a warning for being uncooperative when I calmly explained how silly I thought registering for a day hike was. M was suppose to go to court in Yakima. M was thinking of paying up, but I told him I was taking the day off to go to Yakima with him. The court date got rescheduled twice because the rangers had to go to Yakima from the west side too. Finally the prosecuter dropped the fine to $50 and begged M to pay even though she admitted he would get off. M payed up, but I think the whole thing cost the government more than $50, and it certainly caused the ticketing rangers some stress. My moral to this is, "fight the power."

I would judge Who Cares and Curt on an equal basis. I think they are both from Colorado. I lived in Boulder for a few years and met many climbers convinced that Colorado was the only place good climbers lived and quick to be judgemental on other climbers and their style. In a just world they would both be stuck on a ledge together waiting out a week long storm. This whole discussion started because two people misjudged the conditions and their experience. That being said I think everyone, no matter how smart or experienced, is capable of similar mistakes. Too bad they weren't more lucky.

Self employment rules. Work hard make some money and then tell your customers your booked up for the next few weeks or months.

You silly boys! Take some skis in the winter. I've skied the slopes below the north face. They are loads of fun plus you can be back to the ski area in an hour. I'm concidering a ski decent of the north face in April. Anyone interested? I'll be out of town for the rest of the month, but send me an email. kurtfick@qwest.net

Mar 3-4, Drove through 5" of new snow to the Eldorado parking lot. We camped in the Cascade pass parking lot and skied to the pass and down on Saturday. High winds kept us in the trees on Sunday. We skied the southwest spur of Sahali to within 500' vert of the Boston Sahali sadle. High winds and windslabs kept us from the sadle.

The human population on earth is too big and growing, and people living in 1st world countries consume an excessive amount of the worlds resources. Therfore, I'm all for people climbing after or even during earthquakes. Thumbs up on any other dangerous activities you can come up with Spock's Brain.

Highclimb, If you climb the north ridge on the Grand Valhalla canyon approach is technicaly harder but safer. The Grandstand approach is easier but their is lots of rockfall.