Courtenay

Depends on what you are already doing: Pullups, grip training with thick bars or on campus boards, reverse curls? What level are you climbing and how often/how long do you climb? Mostly gym climbing, or sport (outside) too? With these we can help you get a little more specific.

We had a wonderful 1-day climb of Silverstar via Silverstar Glacier on 5/27. The boulder field at the start is almost completely free of snow, and we had a bit of challenging fun bushwhacking to the stream (there is a trail, we just didn't find it right off the bat.) The river is clear up to the 2-log stream crossing, so be prepared to get your feet wet or head upstream quite a stretch to a wide log angled uphill (we inch-wormed our way across, and managed to stay dry). The gully headed up to Burgundy Col is 1/2 snow, 1/2 uncomfortable scree (no complete glissade) but conditions on the south side are fantastic (great glissading; one in our party had short skis). The scramble to the top is free of snow and the views are WELL worth the climb. We saw evidence of some dramatic slab avalanches over on Kangaroo Ridge high up on the slopes, but nothing like it (yet) on the south side of Silverstar. Snow was relatively soft and we didn't need crampons. Fun climb.

We were up there on the Arete the weekend of 5/19-20 and there was still a bunch of snow, only minimal ice in the chimney. We did Silverstar this past weekend and the conditions were amazingly different -- tremendous amount of melt off. Several in our party opted for climbing up from the hairpin turnoff 5/19-20; this past weekend, it would have been quite the rocky and uncomfortable glissade, due to all the warm weather we've been having. One other point: dramatic slab avalanche evidence up on Kangaroo Ridge, very high up...

To Tape or Not To Tape: http://www.bodyresults.com/E2fingertraining.htm Rule of thumb: if at all possible, to help strengthen the tendons and ligaments (which take longer to get used to climbing than the muscles do) DO NOT tape (much like belt use to lifters--only use when going for max lifts or PR's). However, if you're recovering from an injury to the tendons or ligaments and desperate to ease back into climbing, then taping can provide extra support. If you're relying on the tape to get you through the climb, you very likely shouldn't be back climbing yet--or should limit yourself to footwork, juggy holds, and easy routes, rather than crimpers and mono digit routes. Tendons and ligaments take much longer to heal than muscle strains, so the best advice is to make sure not to go there in the first place -- with sensible training, adequate rest, proper warm-up and stretching, and backing off at the first sign of problems, you should be able to avoid strain. Hope this helps. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Talk about building strong forearms and biceps!! Gotta keep 'em even, though, and switch hands every so often!

Call it a brain burp. Unfortunately, 2 items forgotten temporarily at St. Helens Marblemount Sno-park, left outside the latrine following successful summit climb: MSR blue and black snowshoes, one missing a toe strap; black ice axe with purple leash marked with single band of yellow tape. If any kind reader happened across them sometime after 3:30 p.m. Sunday (yesterday) and picked them up, could you notify me: 206-368-8926. Much thanks, will pay for next-day shipping. Hopefully it's a smaller world than I realize and I'll see these items again sometime soon...

Let's try that link again, sorry folks -- so used to putting ".com" behind everything -- http://www.bodyresults.com/E2kneetest.htm ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

For more on shin splints, see http://www.bodyresults.com/E2shinsplints.htm. Make sure if you go see a doc that you can precisely point out where the pain is, as it could be indicative of a stress fracture, compartment syndrome, or a simpler case of overuse.

...And in most cases, if it's just a little creaky, but no pain, it's probably no big deal (most people's bodies have their little creaky noises.) If it's painful, then as Kyle suggested, see a sports med doc, good PT, or knowledgeable trainer. It indeed it is the VMO (inner, tear-drop shaped quad muscle) that is weaker, try the exercise suggested at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2kneetest.com to see for yourself and strengthen it. The step-down has a much higher correlation to climbing and normal every day use (going down stairs) than the machine, the leg extension, will ever have, so don't bother with the machine unless that's all you have available to you for strengthening. Keep us posted on your progress. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Hi Steve, Rafael, Jason -- You've posted some really good information here. Thought I'd throw in my $.02. The best cure for tendonitis (whether in the fingers, elbows, shoulders...) is definitely REST, though if you're like most climbers, not being able to climb for ANY length of time is probably way too long. Best to take it easy NOW instead of continuing to re-injure just as you think it's about healed, thus prolonging the healing process indefinitely. Rest for a good 2-3 weeks and see if it feels better, then rest another 2 weeks beyond that. I'd also suggest focusing your time climbing outdoors as the weather permits (when you get back to it), rather than in the gym, as gym climbing just seems to lead to overuse -- unless you are primarily an indoor climber? If you are just dying to climb, but don't want to do any pulling, you might hop on some slabs and focus on footwork, keeping arms at shoulder level or below (stemming, manteling, balancing, pushing rather than pulling) -- NO PULLING, I repeat -- but at least it will keep you sane as you try to recover. Good climbing instructors (who have been through the same thing) might be able to suggest other such drills that would aid in recovery. There are elbow braces (like those for tennis elbow) that might assist you, though again using anything to mask symptoms or prolong your climbing to the point where you make it worse is inadvisable. Finally, another suggestion that hasn't come up is electrical stimulation -- offered at PT offices, if you opt to go that route -- it works well for some, not so well for others. When you do get back into climbing, ease into it gradually -- put 48 hours between climbing sessions (like you would strength) and try alternating harder climbing workouts with easier traversing/endurance workouts (what has your climbing routine been, by the way? how many times a week, for how long, and what level?) Hope all of this is useful. Have you had a chance to check out any of the pre-season workout suggestions that CC.com has shared (through Body Results) that provide suggestions for maintaining body balance? ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Another thing to look at is your typical running surface -- are you running on pavement, treadmill, dirt trails, sand, hot coals?? I agree rest is usually the first thing you want to do; second, make sure you increase mileage gradually, in a sensible manner (what is your weekly and per-run mileage, and have you increased it dramatically over the past month?) Third, stretching (heel cord/calves, hamstrings, quads and hips) can definitely help, along with strengthening moves. Try these two moves for the calves and anterior tibialis (muscles on the front of the lower leg): 1) Standing Calf Raise: stand on a stair step or wooden block with ball of foot on the edge, heels hanging free, and raise up onto your toes as high as possible, then lower down as far as your range of motion allows you to and hold in that bottom stretched position. Repeat 15-20 times for anywhere from 1-3 sets. 2) For anterior tibialis, sit on a bench with a light weight resting on your toe (wear shoes!) and hold onto the edge with your hand. Raise toe and weight up and lower down -- keep this in higher repetition range to start, with light weight; try going 15-20 repetitions. As for a PT, I highly recommend Lisa Fox in Seattle, though she's already spoken for. She works with a lot of climbers and runners and is conveniently located in downtown Seattle. 206-619-2405. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

We welcome all new climbers to the forum, whether they're just starting with rock climbing or shooting for something as lofty as Rainier. While I completely understand NolanR's points about getting plenty of experience with climbing before doing a big challenge like Rainier, I also understand that sometimes people shoot for a lofty goal for plenty of other reasons besides wanting to get into climbing. For those who are doing it as part of the Climb for Clean Air, welcome, and feel free to ask whatever questions you have. Keep in mind that it's very important to go with someone who knows technical safety and how to teach YOU about self-care; it's also important to know how your body reacts at high elevation. However, even if you get to try something fairly high like Hood, Baker or Adams before doing Rainier, climbing above 12,500' IS substantially different. Be prepared for that -- mentally and physically. Being in phenomenal shape is no guarantee that you'll succeed on Rainier -- everyone's body reacts differently, even from time to time on the mountain (i.e. you may have no trouble one year, and make it to the top; but a year later, in even better shape, you may not be able to get above 12,000 for whatever reason.) Also keep in mind as you're training that the best preparation for climbing is ... climbing -- so get out there with your backpack, do some hikes that include substantial elevation gain (anyone tried Constance over on the Olympic peninsula?? Talk about a quad burner!! 3400' elevation gain in the first 2 miles!) and gradually increase the weight of your backpack and the distance you go. Best of luck to you Joy, and keep us posted on your progress! ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Hi Joy, You're in luck, as we have such information posted on our web site at http://www.bodyresults.com/S2Rainier.htm. We also send out a free monthly newsletter full of good training tips -- send e-mail to trainer@bodyresults.com with the message "subscribe cc" and we'll get that to you every month. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Bronco, Short answer: yes. When you get close to the time to do your high-altitude ascent, try including some interval training 1-2 times a week -- pushing into the 80-95% MHR for short periods of time repeatedly -- this gets the body used to working for short stints with less oxygen, so it can handle that type of stress when you're on the mountain. Granted, most of your cardio training should be focused on maximum endurance and leg strength -- but since the air is considerably thinner above 14K, the body has to work much harder to pump the limited oxygen to the working muscles -- if you've trained anaerobic, your body (and mind) will be better adapted to handle it. By "intervals" I mean something like the following: once thoroughly warmed up, try 2 minutes at "base pace" or 60-75% MHR -- this could be running, walking with a heavy back pack (more like what you'd be doing on a mountain), cycling, or whatever; then do 1-2 minutes at a rate/intensity/cadence higher than base, getting you closer to anaerobic (75-90%) and then return to base; try to keep the working and recovering interval about the same and go for the desired amount of time. Intense workout, so keep it to 1-2 times a week. Enjoy! ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Hi Dan, Truly an excellent question, and one that has numerous answers, as I'm sure you'll find out. How long have you been climbing, and do you follow any sort of periodized training program (such as that suggested in "How to Climb 5.12" with the 4-3-2-1 week scheme) or do you train more "instinctively" with your climbing? In order to avoid overtraining, you're correct -- you want to give your body enough recovery time, which generally means if you're climbing 3x/week (with at least a day of rest between) you want to take the other days off. HOWEVER, if you want to do some non-climbing training to balance out the pulling muscles (as in doing some pushups, reverse wrist curls, seated rows for the rhomboids, shoulder presses, and some core or leg work) you could do these on non-climbing days or following your climbing (say, if you're going to Stone Gardens or Vertical World.) If your primary goal in training is to strengthen the exact climbing muscles, you might want to think about off-season training of climbing 2x/week and strength 1-2x/week, reducing the strength training closer to season to maximize your climbing time. Another idea (if you're following the 4-3-2-1 plan) is to do strength training during the Endurance phase (4 weeks) which is generally supposed to be lower-intensity, non-pumpy climbing, and perhaps do that 2x/week, but once you get into the more demanding power or power-endurance phases, lift only once (perhaps every 4 days or so) alternating with the climbing days to give your body enough time to recover. How about hearing from some of you who've been climbing injury-free for years? (Are there any such people?)

If, indeed, it IS in fact an IT band problem and you'd like to try some stretching for it, a good one is as follows (we'll have a picture of it up soon): Stand sideways to a wall with the affected leg (the one to be stretched) closer to the wall. Cross the other (balancing) leg in front of the leg to be stretched, with arm pressing torso away from the wall and (balancing) foot on the floor. Lean into the hip to feel a good stretch all the way up the side of the leg -- think of your body in a sort of arcing "C" position with hip closest to the wall, feet and shoulders away from the wall. Hope this makes sense. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Hey there Nolan, no worries on straying -- that's one of the problems we get when we only have one extremely active thread at a time. Anyone care to start another?

Just to clear up a commonly held but misconstrued idea that NolanR shared earlier in this thread: << ...so taking a lot of time to train for power (which tends to develop large muscles) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. >> Actually, training for POWER does NOT develop large muscles -- training for HYPERTROPHY (muscle growth and development) does. When you look at the opposite extremes on the scale from bodybuilders to power or Olympic style lifters (simply as an example), the most powerful people (Oly lifters) are NOT necessarily the biggest, and they can move weight VERY quickly. They also train for max effort, max weight, minimum reps. Bodybuilders, on the other hand, will go for light weight, hundreds of reps in a workout, and in essence train for "the pump." So how does this all relate to Power vs. Endurance? You really need BOTH to succeed in the alpine environment. I think most of the people in this thread are probably alpine or sport climbers -- so endurance (of legs) won't be as important as endurance of calves, forearms, core, and fingers. You have to determine what your goals are, what the climbs you like to do involve, and train accordingly -- but I'm of the firm belief that EVERYONE can benefit from being stronger. Even the wiry guys in the gym who climb 12's. In fact, the harder routes you climb, the more strength plays an important role -- beginners can get by on climbs without being able to do a pullup because the learning curve is so steep w/r to technique-- but as technique improves and you learn all the ways to do sport or alpine climbs, muscular endurance and strength start to factor in... BTW, good discussion here! ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Actually, if you're training primarily for maximum STRENGTH, doing excessive cardio CAN compromise strength gains -- which is why people like Olympic-style lifters, powerlifters, Strong-man competitors and the like (who are going for 1-rep max or 1RM lifts) do very little cardiovascular training. It's been shown that for "heart benefits", you need merely 20 minutes 2-3x/week of gentle rhythmic activity such as walking. But for those of us going out in the mountains, that paltry recommendation would mean we'd never last the first hour with a heavy pack. That having been said, nobody coming to this site is a "casual exerciser" -- we're all heavily into climbing!! So indeed you DO need to look at the big picture of what you are training for, and alpine climbers doing any vertical stuff will need a mixture of strength, power, cardio endurance, AND muscular endurance, as well as skill (for any of you who haven't checked out the Climbing Fitness Polygon, this will help: www.bodyresults.com/E3fitnesspolygon.htm). Many people will opt to train strength and cardio on different days in order not to compromise either. Try it yourself; when you put strength training first, you may find that the last thing you want to do is go for a run or hop on the stairmaster--hence, cardio will be compromised. Vice versa, if you put cardio first, you will likely find that you just don't have the energy or strength needed to make progress on the strength workouts. Identify what needs the most work or help, and put it early in your workouts. Whew, enough said -- perhaps it's time to start another thread? ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Eddie raises a few interesting points about lactate tolerance and challenging yourself mentally by putting the tough stuff (actual crux) last, but please also remember that when you start to train this way, pay very close attention to your body. If you're not used to flaming your arms before going for a crux or dicey boulder problem, in my opinion and experience, you run more risk of an injury to finger or elbow tendons which can set you off climbing for longer than you'd like. The long and short of it is you need to learn to read your body and determine its weak points, then train them out gradually. The main goal is to be able to keep climbing! ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Anyone out there have any favorite training tips they'd like to share with everyone else? It could be a time-saver, or a "who'd have thought it" tip, or something similar. To start us off, one way I have of killing two birds with one stone is taking my dog for a hills walk with a weighted pack -- she gets to go outside, I use it as a more strenuous workout than merely letting her trot about aimlessly, and that frees up some other time to get things done. Another example is working on forearm endurance -- I carry as many groceries as I can in plastic bags on foot (about a mile -- see Farmer's Walk thread earlier on this board) and spread fingers as WIDE as possible, palms down, so I work the opposite muscles to the climbing/gripping muscles. Give it a shot, share some strategies! ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Dan, training for power and endurance DOES create competing demands on muscles, but working with a periodized (cyclical) training program can optimize your training and help you with both. What some people do is separate cardio and strength sessions so that they don't compromise either (in answer to your 2nd question.) As to your first: [training power first -- it lasts longer -- then training endurance]. In a single training session, whether climbing or strength training, it's best to put the most demanding movements (power) earlier in the workout (after properly warming up) and muscular endurance (lighter weights, higher reps) later in the workout. In terms of a climbing program, it obviously makes more sense to do any of your dyno moves or harder projects earlier (again, warm up properly) when you still have something to give, then finish off with endurance traversing or easier climbing to try to flush out the pump -- and tacking on cardio (or putting it in another session.) If you're asking about cardio (long run) first or climbing ("power") first, what you might try is one day doing the cardio first and see how it affects your climbing, then another day doing the climbing first and see what effect it has on your run. Also analyze which is more important to you: do you feel your cardio needs work, or your climbing/strength? Priority training means you put that harder thing first while you are fresh. If you'd like to clarify your question further, feel free to do so here or contact me off list at court@bodyresults.com. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

Swimming is a decent way to cross-train for climbing; it gives you some cardio activity and also allows you to work shoulders, back, and chest in different ways from climbing, particularly if you throw in some back stroking. It's also great for anyone having to rehab any part of the body (i.e. if you have any hand or lower body problems) as you don't need to "grip" anything and the buoyancy of the water provides resistance. Anyone else care to share their own experiences? I know some climbers out there who are also training for triathlons... ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

How'd you aggravate it? For how long? History of problems there? Best thing to do is use it as much as you can while still remaining pain free -- if that means partial range of motion activities, fine. After all, if you have ever had a cast on your body, you're probably already aware of the atrophy that occurs with muscle that's not used. Ice is best within the first 3 days of aggravation to reduce swelling, and then you might try alternating heat (hot tubs work great) and ice (Icy/hot). You also might want to try some gentle stretching for the affected area and massage gently at the same time. And when in doubt, it's usually a good idea to have a sports medicine doc or good PT take a look and see if there is something else you could be doing in the meantime. "Use it or lose it" with caution -- keep moving, but keep it pain free. Hope these tips help. ------------------ Courtenay Schurman, CSCS

What's even more hilarious is that most of the non-climbers out there think -- GASP -- that these movies REALLY reflect climbing at its best. Sigh. I'll probably wait until it's out on video. After all, $7.75 can buy two more 'biners...