Alex

great pics, congrats to the both of you!!

That looks really nice. I actually think your Remmel shot of you is really good, Pat. Way to be out there!

Agreed, looks like crap. I sure could use that hardware for some other stuff, so....where.. exactly is this rig?

The washouts just keep the gapers at bay. It's your call.

When I did it I just traversed around Whatcom in about 2.5 hours from Whatcom Pass. But that was a high snow year.

minddoc, if you are looking for easier condish on this route you should probably hit it end of May/first week of June, next year.

You don't get out of Oregon much if you are surprised about the pumping gas or sales tax thingys.

The first time I rope-solo aided Iron Horse I was unable to figure out how to get past the blankness above the fixed pins, and had to resort to aiding rightwards to that anchor. I was a n00b and out of my depth. I didn't realize I could have just down-aided. In that respect, that anchor was vital because it let me escape my own folly and learn how to be a better climber without dying or getting hurt, and without committing to going up to the next anchors on wide gear or mandatory free climbing.

Its commonly done. Basic glacier travel eq and good xc nav skillz

I've climbed 3 routes at static and only a handful of days at seneca, so if you think I am out of line with those examples, maybe I am. I remember Static as sunshine, sweet rock, and almost no bolts marring the expanse of slab. Those lines that have bolts at all are very sparsely bolted. Much more so than Darrington. What I remember of Seneca was that it was trad stuff I was on and that was the flavor of the area, I didn't see any bolts there at all. I am not saying there aren't any bolts or that they were not put in on rapp with a cordless drill, but its nothing like the bolt farming you see around here and at many crags in the West these days. Smith, Skaha, Ex32/38, Leavenworth, Vantage, Tieton, tons of places.

We miss you Tim! Canmore has a pretty damn short rock season. Though, given infinite cash, I would certainly be there part of the year. I think if money were no object I would likely spend about half my year in Canmore (Fall, winter), and half my year (spring, Summer) in a La Grave/Chamonix/Innsbruck-like locale.

Really? I've seen tons of places protected purely by local ethics that are applied consistently. The Gunks (albeit managed by Mohonk Preserve, but thats not the reason there are no bolts), Adirondacks crags, many trad areas back East like Seneca. And I've seen very responsible bolting at mixed areas like the New. This was because local climber's bought into the current standards of the area. Even here in Washington, Static Point comes to mind instantly as an example of a place that has managed to keep it "very traditional" despite the goings on at other nearby areas.

The answer is obviously "Stay away and move to CA instead!"... Should you decide to consider Seattle, Washington, though, 1. Not a problem for Seattle area. Bellingham doesnt have any real close cragging (I guess Mt Erie is 30-40 min away). 2. "Good local ice climbing" does not exist on the We(s)t Coast, the temps are too mild in the Winter. There *IS* ice in Washington and BC, just like there *IS* ice sometimes in CA, but nothing truly local and accessible like the interior. 3. What have you seen pics of? The alpine climbing in WA and Southwestern BC is amazing! Cdn Rockies are 10 hours away. 4. Thats up to you. Anywhere in WA other than Seattle area or perhaps Spokane will not have much w.r.t. tech jobs or call centers. Bellingham is a non-starter as far as employment: its a college/retirement town with no industry at all. Not that Bellingham isn't really nice, though. Perhaps one of the local PDXers could comment on Portland.

Good question. I just looked online, and it looks to be about a half mile south of the wilderness boundry.

You are equally free here to laud the exceptional qualities and bleeding edge attributes IB lends to climbing. I don't need to climb a 22 pitches of bolts to make 'value statements' about its existence or the trade-offs of establishing such a route where land managers would take exception to it. Actually, it seems to have been lost on you that not only do I not recommend the route in general [1], [2] but I would support its removal based on the power drill in wilderness argument [3] , as I've already mentioned in this thread a few days ago. We hold the same opinion, only came about it differently.

"There is nothing exceptional about it except the extent and length of its medocrity and mendacity." I like reading your posts in general, Joseph, but whenever you make personal value statements about a route that by your own admission you have not personally seen or even attempted or completed, you just look like an idiot.

Ah

No Ben Kuntz in the corporate address book. Alex

We often forget that climbing is just a form of recreation: something we do to have fun, or get a workout, or see some new sights, experience nature, or escape from our daily lives if only for a few hours. Motivations are as diverse as the individuals who participate. We also often lose sight of the fact that climbing draws many of its participants precisely because it's that self-motivated endevour, with no rules outside the laws that govern our general society. No "climbing cops" are there at the base of the crag, asking us to sign a waivers and making sure we are doing everything according to some formula. We can do what we like. Including putting our own lives at risk, at the State's expense in case of rescue. Or climbing "dumbed down" sport routes, if we wish not to put our lives at risk. And as long as that is within the law, and not hurting someone, there is little argument left. Which is why I don't hear people threatening to chop every bolt at Smith, for example. Everyone's ethics in climbing are their own. I've climbed the route. With only the legal argument, I personally agree that the route should never have been established in the first place and should be removed. (I don't think anyone will miss it, when it is finally removed. just my opinion, I guess) Moreover, I think the only reason it hasn't been removed yet is because man, thats alot of work, dude!! and no one has felt strongly enough about it yet to go and actually take on the task. It would be alot of work, and its just not really that important. No other routes like it have been established since then ("rap bolting in the Wilderness"). Just one climbers .02.

Good luck, the weather looks like crap http://www.atmos.washington.edu/data/rainier_report.html

Call it 5.6. Its the type of climbing that is slabby, small features, and very run out. You will want rock shoes for if you are not a strong leader. You will not want to do it wet. Otherwise, it goes fairly quickly and is straightforward.

Joe, I've done Vesper twice. From the base of the upper slab, there actually are no real well-defined routes other than the actual corner. As to your question, he means B). The corner itself has lots of pro. The first time we went up we followed a crack system 50 ft right of the corner, out on the face. After the first pitch of no pro, it was really low 5th class with ample pro the rest of the way. The second time we did the corner. Its very moderate except one awkward move fairly low in the corner. No worries about pro.

Actually, I own a VW and am happy with it. I also owned a 68 Westy and got tired of its ills. So whatever. But a newer VW will be more expensive than a 90's Honda, which is what I had before this VW and would recommend to anyone

Hey Loren, if you're ever lacking partner drop me a shout... Alex