Matt

Cavy, Iceguy & whoever, Sorry you couldn't make it down to Tacoma, but it sounds like you had fun on your own. Dwayner is one cool cat and you missed some interesting conversations on climbing in Algeria , peace in the Middle East , hanging pigs at Index and what should be done about spray paint at Vantage. I think the cascadeclimbers.com BB is a lot like George W. Bush, as in "I'm a uniter, not a divider." It's all about bringing people together, meeting new partners and just talking about what we all love: climbing and beer, not necessarily in that order.

Lambone, Here are some more questions you might consider. I'm sure you can think of the appropriate a.b.c.d. answers for each one. 10.1 Are you a member of the American Alpine Club? 10.2 Are you a member of any organizations? Sierra Club? Earth First!? NRA? John Birch Society?10.3 Do you own a gun? 10.4 Are you now or have you ever been a member of the military?10.5 Have you ever traveled overseas?10.6 Do you speak any foreign languages? 16.1. Have you ever used a “blue bag”?16.2. Have you ever had giardia? 20. Have you ever climbed a first ascent?21. Do you drink alcohol when you climb?22. Do you smoke marijuana when you climb? 23. Do you use other recreational drugs when you climb?24. Have you ever been injured when climbing?25. Have you ever had an unplanned bivouac?25. Has climbing ever caused you to loose your job?26. Has climbing ever caused you to end a relationship?27. Has climbing ever been the most important thing in your life? [ 02-05-2002: Message edited by: Matt ]

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Who knows, maybe "The Clit" has come and gone. Mattp is the epitome of "old school." Just curious, do you have any interesting beta on climbing Saint Helens pre-May 18, 1980?

Wait, better yet, I think Secretary of State Colin Powell is even BETTER at articulating my "anglo christian attitude." Saturdays' Post Intelligencer included a front page article with a headline as follows: We must 'go after poverty' to stop terror, Powell says http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/56834_forum02.shtml

quote: Originally posted by erik: 3 words for fairweather and matt anglo christian attitude I think Secretary-General Kofi Amman better articulates my "anglo christian attitude." Wait a second . . . ‘We Can Love What We Are, Without Hating What – And Who – We Are Not’ http://www.nobel.no/eng_lect_2001b.html [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Matt ]

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: Brother Matt says something to this effect: "Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers..." Exactly! Terrorists ARE losers! [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Dwayner ] Shalom Brother Dwayner.

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: Matt, I don't see YOUR last name used here. The fact that I omitted my full name from this site and changed it is of no concern to you. (In fact it is because of hotheads like you that I did so) The fact that you have taken every opportunity to use my full name leads me to believe you somehow feel you are intimidating or "exposing" me. Trust me; you're not. None the less, I believe common courtesy and board etiquette should compel you to respect my choice of "Fairweather". What's up Fairweather? Did somebody steal your mojo?

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: ...I just can't let this one go unanswered: Matt,you are an apologist for terrorist murderers. I don't care what your education/background is, what UN agency you've worked for, or what degree(s) you may hold. You need to reconsider this statement. I, for one, am proud to call myself an American. You should also reconsider how you respond to those with whom you disagree. You do your causes and beliefs a great disservice when you come out with the big guns blazing in a personal attack. Brian Rybolt, Attempting to imagine why people may have been motivated to attack America does not make me less of a patriot. A true patriot as well as a soldier will try to get in the mind of his attacker. “Know thy enemy and know thyself and in a hundred battles you will never be in danger,” says Sun Tsu. Yes, I think many people in the world do not love America and part of the reason is our wealth, part of the reason is our willingness to ignore what other nations believe and do whatever we like and part is the general frustration the world has with us because we’re so damn good at everything we do. It is complicated and deserves some serious thought, not just dismissed as “their problem.” We as a nation need to step back and say, “How can we change for the better?” I think, as President Bush had suggested, expanding the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps and Freedom Corps (whatever this is) is a step in the right direction. I found it personally offensive when you wrote earlier that we should use a nuclear weapon in Afghanistan. I find your conservative diatribe infuriating, but I do not know you as a person and possibly my anger has been misdirected. I do not have animosity towards you as a person, but I disagree with your beliefs. If you are going to keep making generalizations about “enviros,” “poor populations,” and what the Kyoto Protocol was really about then I will take any chance I can get to refute what you say in this forum.

Crikey! I love that!

quote: Originally posted by Dru: at least you're a rope lead now! and everybody but me and dan larson is really an avatar of mike adamson. thats 3/2000 or something like that. True, true!

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: Many countries do not have the social and political infrastructures to accept our "wealth". It often gets stolen, abused or neglected. I have spent years in such countries and concluded that sharing/throwing our resources at many places in the world is a total waste. You are right, many countries do not have the social and political infrastructures to accept our “wealth”. I served as a United Nations Volunteer in Mongolia. I was an advisor to a project called the “Decentralization and Democracy Support Project,” run by the United Nations Development Programme. The goal of the project was to increase participatory methods of self-governance and empower local government. Another goal was to direct aid money around the center and directly to where the people needed it. We also encouraged the creation of non-governmental organizations, what Americans call a 501© (3) , and hoped people would look to solve their problems without depending on a central government. We helped build infra-structure and increase communication. Our project was very conservative and should please all the Republican doubters. We taught a strong local government is better for the people. So Dwayner I agree with you that the quality of government in many developing nations needs to be improved, but I think something can be done about it. There are, in fact, many people in the world trying to affect the development of social and political structures in the world. George Soros is perhaps the most famous. quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: I believe that population control should be the first step. Although I think the Pope is a pretty decent guy, if I were him, I would have a revelation that birth control is mandatory. Ouch Pope, what did you do to Dwayner? Population control is absolutely necessary. Here’s my opinion on it: give a rural Chinese or Indian or anyone for that matter 24-hour electricity and a television. People will watch tv and stop making love. Without a tv or books to read people get bored. They’ve got to do something. Do you know which channel they want to watch? It’s either CNN or the Discovery Channel. After that maybe it’s Baywatch. quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: So how about this, bleeding heart alpinists....take the first step and redistribute the wealth...start by selling your climbing gear and sending the cash to your favorite program. I'd have more respect for that then the usual noise-makin! I give my time to my favorite programs, and I think physically doing something for a cause is a more valuable contribution than just giving money. If It would make you feel better you can sell me some of your old pins and a rock hammer and then give me the money. Shalom, Matt

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: So if I give some of these guys a sandwich, can they promise me that they won't hijack an airplane full of innocent "first world" consumers and ram it into our buildings, nuclear plants, etc.? Can they promise not to have ten kids or more kids, a good many of which survive because of our generous international food and health plans?Ain't it ideal to be an idealist! Why do you think they are so angry at America? What has driven them to think the only solution is terrorism? I think it's because they are losers in the global ecomomy. They see us as greedy and unwilling to share. It is a simple case of the haves and the have nots.

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: I will agree with the suggestion that poor populations tend to ravage their mountains at a faster pace than developed. Makes me wonder why so many enviros want to move backward instead of forward economically. It is also poor nations that are "overpopulating" the planet. USA population growth is primarily immigration and the offspring thereof. The Sierra Club had a very contentious debate a couple years ago on whether to support an anti-immigration agenda. Anytime a report is released by the UN it seems to be light on science and heavy on left wing agenda, if one takes the time to read the fine print. By the way...The Kyoto Treaty WAS NOT about cutting CO2 emissions; it was about the re-distribution of wealth. Why don't you crawl back into your cave of ignorance, Brian Rybolt. Why did you decide to hide behind the avatar of "Fairweather"? I am sick of your bullshit popping up all over this site. Here's something to think about: If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of precisely 100 people, with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following. There would be: 57 Asians8 Africans21 Europeans14 from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south52 would be female, 48 would be male70 would be nonwhite, 30 would be white70 would be non-Christian, 30 would be Christian89 would be hetrosexual, 11 would be homosexual6 people would possess 59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 would be from the U.S.70 would be unable to read50 would suffer from malnutrition1 would have a college education1 would own a computer Brian Rybolt, you are in this village. You have EVERYTHING YOU WANT!!! You are the rich, white Christian hetro educated computer owning American. Why can't you share? We, as Americans, are the richest most successful people on the planet. We have a responsibility to our children to reduce our insatiable consumption of natural resources because we take too much! Our resources are finite! We waste too much! We have a responsibility to help those less fortunate because: (1) we can, (2) it is the right thing to do and (3) because it is in out own self interest to do so-- business operates in a global market. Stop distancing yourself from those people in "poor nations that are overpopulating the planet" and start thinking about them as your neighbor. Try and consider why you should help them. It is called civil society. When you go climbing with a friend and he discovers on the top of the mountain that he forgot his lunch, what do you say? Sorry sucker watch me eat? I'll bet you share it with him.

quote: Originally posted by al: I was also up at Alpental Valley on Tuesday to check out the ice. Where you with the party of three that came to the falls? Yep. I was there with Gene too. Damn it seems like everywhere I turn in the Cascades there is a cc'er. You should have come up with us to Bryant Buttress and helped break trail through the powda. There were some worthless skiers/snowboarders who followed in our hard earned tracks. It was well worth it. Hung out in a little ice cave and got to scratch up an untouched piece of ice.

Hey mtnrgr, do you know of any good places in Federal Way? If not, my vote goes to Tacoma. Fair is fair.

I bought my first rope when I was 17. It took tons of abuse: my high school friends and I top roped every choss pile we could find. It was a 45 meter 11 mm rope-- the cheapest chord I could find in the "sale " pile at the local shop. After climbing for four years, during which time I learned to lead, to fall, and even once belayed a friend buildering into a 3rd story window in our college dorm, I took my first trip overseas-- Australia. I spent most of my time climbing at Arapiles where I took my first real fall-- over 40 feet. I managed to log a lot of air time on that trip. The rope was at its end, so to speak. I had no money, but I wanted to travel some more so I decided to ask around and see if anyone would buy my rope. Just before I went home I sold my rope to a Kiwi named Simon. By that time it was about 13mm in diameter, furry like a catapillar and even shorter than when I first bought it. If he were an American he'd probably sue me because it was the perfect time to retire that POS, but I managed to get back 60% of what I paid for it. As far as I know it never broke. I've heard that if you buy a rope and never use it, just store it away in your dark dry closet, you should retire it after 8 years. Or you can just sell it on a road trip to some simple Simon who is a real dirtbag climber, not just a wannabe like myself. Here's to dirtbag climbers! They never worry about their gear getting too old!

The other day a climbing buddy was trying to convince me that an $86.00 Black Diamond Yosemite Hammer was a waste of money. He said for less than $20 you can find a perfectly good hammer at a hardware store. Sure, you don’t get a fancy hole in the head to yank pins out with, but it’s not that hard to wrap some webbing around the head and made due with what you have. I admit to only have pounded a handful pins so I’m not really sure if I believe him. I know clean aid is the wave of the future-- if I’m trying to minimize my impact on the rock do I really want to pay that much money for something that says I’ve given up on clean climbing? If I shell out $86 for a fancy hammer I’ll want to use it, however, if all I have is a $7.00 carpentry hammer maybe I won’t. Part of me says, “Simplify,” while the other shouts, “But the big wall hammer is so cool!” My friend has spent considerable time in Yosemite and said once he broke his first wall hammer he switched to regular carpentry hammers. What do you think? Is the design of the Black Diamond or other big wall hammers earth shatteringly superior to carpentry hammers, making it an essential piece of today’s aid climber’s rack or will a regular joe blow hammer suffice?

The South Platte is a truly wonderful place to climb. I was lucky enough to visit it this past summer while visiting an old college roommate who has made his home in Divide, Colorado. Each day we drove along the dirt road that wound its way along the bottom of the canyon and he pointed to different domes he had climbed until we found one that looked appealing. The river was full of wild trout and Jane, my wife, would find a nice rock in the middle of the river on which to stand. She would cast her dry flies without worry of snagging a branch and at the same time keep us in view as we climbed. For several days John and I picked the plum lines on the various domes, each climb between 3 and four pitches. Jane fished, pleased with herself that she could net the wild trout without me looking over her shoulder. I was happy to be climbing with an old friend in a quiet canyon on excellent rock. It was never crowded, we saw only the occasional fly fisherman and a few climbing bums living out of the back of their Toyota pick up. The domes were reminiscent of Yosemite granite, however, they were smaller, mostly three or four pitches. There were bolts, but nothing we did was a sport climb. We always needed a rack and even the bolted pitches weren’t bolted into submission by any means. There were lots of ramps, and so a fumbled clip could easily land you on a flat piece of rock 15 or 20 feet below—real ankle breakers. It was enough to make me worry about ruining my vacation and I backed off a few climbs. Each day we’d climb until the afternoon thunderstorms caught us, and then we’d run back to the car sopping wet to find Jane sitting comfortably snacking on lunch with stories of the day’s catch. The character of the climbs reflected the ethics of their time—when any self-respecting first ascensionist would only drill when absolutely necessary and only on lead. My friend complained about the poor bolting jobs and suggested we go climb somewhere else, where the routes were steeper and a fall would result in air time not sliding down the less than vertical slabs and hitting who knows what. Bolts leave a scar on the rock, albeit a small and generally unnoticed to all except the people who clip them. When climbers put up new routes that lack natural protection they are faced with a choice of whether or not to bolt. First, the route must be of high quality and worthy of bolting—Dreamer in Darrington comes to mind. Then they must decide whether to climb from the ground up and hope that their fist attempt at finding the best line and bolting will result in something worthy of their effort or they can scout the rock from above, testing the different options, the different possibilities, and only when the best line is found, then they can get out the drill and place the ubiquitous bolt. I believe the latter is the best option, because then each bolt can be placed with serious thought and consideration, not desperation, as I suspect would be the case most of the time when drilling on lead. Some quality lines can be spotted from the road, others must be ferreted out. When it the latter, it is better to top rope a possible route from above before littering the cliff with bolts on an unaesthetic line that future climbers will not want to follow. Drilling bolts into the rock is not an endeavor to be entered into lightly. It requires careful consideration. When altering the rock is required, such as cleaning or drilling, a first ascent should not be a statement of the climber’s ego, rather it should be creating something that can be shared with the entire climbing community. When a 5.12 climber puts up a 5.8 route and only places protection where he needs it then the climb becomes a trophy for his inflated ego. If you are going to alter the rock it should be in a way that will benefit the majority of the people in our climbing community. I think this means it’s okay to run it out on easy ground relative to the overall grade of a route, but in difficult places if there is no natural protection, the first ascensionist should drill bolts keeping in mind the climber pushing his or her limit. For example, I think on the crux pitch of a slab climb it is okay to space bolts about fifteen feet apart with bolts at or just below all of the crux moves, and thirty to forty apart on pitches that are significantly easier than the crux. I generally don’t want to see more than ten bolts on a pitch, but I also don’t want to consider a fall greater than thirty feet when I’m pushing my limit. I also don’t mind running out a 5.6 pitch in the middle of a 5.10 climb. When, say, the first bolt of a route is 25+ feet off the ground or there is a runout of forty feet in the middle of a crux pitch all I can think of is the utter arrogance of the first ascensionist. When a route is bolted so only a select few elite climbers will be willing to risk a big fall then the bolts become litter that nobody sees. If you’re going to drill, drill a great line. Drill something striking formidable, challenging, but also accessible. Drill something that can be repeated so more people will do it and help dilute the concentration of climbers at the more established areas. Don’t drill something so scary that no one in their right mind would lead it. Don’t scar the rock and then say, “Hey look what I did! I’m such a bad ass! It was a great experience for me ‘cause I did it on lead! Go ahead and try it! See if you dare!” Get over yourself I say. Share a little. Take your time and do it right or don’t do it at all. Some people say they only bolt when leading and leave big runouts when they can because the want to preserve the “adventure” or the “legitimacy” of a climb. I think that’s bull shit. It’s selfish to alter the rock for yourself without keeping in mind the people who will inevitably follow. It's selfish because there will inevitably be more people who will enjoy a well protected climb than a Rated R/X death climb. I hope climbers in the PNW will see the ethics followed in the South Platte as what they are, a piece of history but not a suggested path for today.

Moab is very cool, albeit sometimes crowded. Try the Kor-Ingalls on Castleton Tower. Four pitches of killer climbing at only 5.9+!!!! Bring lots of fat cams and get there early. I also suggest climbing in Arches-- I think it's Owl Rock that goes at 5.8, one or two pitches, very cool. Spend a day at Pot Ash Road and a day or two at Indian Creek. Bring lots of cams and BYOB unless you dig 3.2!!!

Thanks for the heads up Rat. I'm feelin' better already. I know a man with a plan and we're gonna find some sweet ice pickles to dangle from. I will do my best to puke blood, that's part of the plan. As for you Michael, if I were to drive 15+ hours to climb ice I certainly would not go south to Cali, but I'm glad you're gettin' some. And Gene, you're a good egg. Let's go climb, eh?

Tim & Vegie Pocket, I think there is a conspiracy going on in the PNW that is worthy of an X-File. All I hear is "no ice-- melting ice-- what started to form is falling down-- no ice-- don't even bother with this ice-- just a waterfall-- no ice-- maybe next year-- save yourself the drive-- no ice-- like to ice climbing? Go to Cascade Crags in Everett-- ice rained out-- the biggest icicle I saw this year was in a Nalgene bottle mixed with Scotch-- sorry, no ice-- Got ice?-- snow on top of rock is close to ice, right? -- no ice-- winter sucks-- wanna climb ice? let's go to Erik's freezer-- can't top rope ice-- no ice-- " What's the deal? There is ice out there. There has to be. Am I in denial? I'm sorry, I'm jonesing a little. Anyone for a trip up north this weekend?

Another good pick Dwayner! Erik is one cool dude.

You shouldn't expect any of the ice beta on this site to be valid. If it's in, all the ice snobs (those who lead WI5+ ergo are better and more deserving than the rest of us ice gumbies) are going to tell you it sucks because they don't want you to hack up their precious ice. Anyone who's really in the know will try and mislead you. Anyone who posts useful beta will get slammed, spammed, and damned by the ice police. If you want to climb ice you'd better find a friend who lives near it or do the drive and hike yourself. Don't expect good ice beta to be given out freely on this site. There are no free rides.

1. Cynical Pinnacle (Center Route) 2. Yvon Chouinard 3. The Nose

I spent yesterday teleing around the Castle in the Tatoosh. The snow conditions varied from great to so-so. Aside from the occasional ice patch there were many turns to be had in untracked powder and the snow pack seemed very solid. I brought along an ice axe and crampons, but never used them. In the morning the sky was clear and the park offered us beautiful views of Rainer, however, towards noon a blanket of clouds came in and covered everything. At the beginning of our ski we followed the tracks of a small animal which I believe to be a fox. A word to the wise, there were many ice lines forming up and with a few more days of below freezing conditions I think it might be worth it to check out. My partner had been in the park earlier in the week and said there was a noticeable increase in the ice flows. Narada Falls was almost (knock on wood) touching down and there were several good lines in the valley to climb, but only if you're a hard man (or woman) and willing to venture out on WI5 or there abouts. Nothing really looked fat. Mostly I was just out there celebrating the fact that I was spending another magnificant Thursday in the mountains. My partner and I discussed the pit falls of American society and decided that , as I have said numerous times, work is just another four letter word, and one to be avoided at all costs. We vowed to work less, not more, and to meet again on a midweek foray into the mountains. I do not need a faster car nor a bigger tv, just a casual Thursday in Mt. Rainer National Park to soothe my soul and make me feel human again.