JasonG

Less climbing gear means more alcohol and fishing gear! Or forget the Enchantments and drive to the Bugaboos and climb the best 5.4 on the planet.

This is my experience, and why I'm here and some of my partners are not. They didn't screw up any more than any of us who alpine climb, and I didn't learn anything from their deaths that I didn't already know.

The rangers are out and about on skis regularly and could give you an update on conditions @mzvarner if you call down to Longmire.

That ad is framed and on the wall of the MRA cabin in Longmire.

Character building with all that weight, I'm sure. Looks like a great adventure nonetheless!

Agreed, there is a time limit to editing that one of the admins has to lift, or a mod can make the changes @Bigtree

I have a 1991 Civic. And I bike to work on a rural, two lane, 50mph road. I suppose climbing/skiing are the least of my worries.

How do you define "risky activity"? All in life carries risk. Do you try and figure odds for driving (what kind of car do I buy??), using crosswalks, etc? And do those calculations change your behavior? Seems like a lot of work. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that doing some calculation makes you feel confident that you're being "safe". Maybe that's not what you're saying though.

a very, very good point @telemarker. We have been glossing over this angle.

Powder is addictive, way more so than climbing, at least in my experience. It is hard to pass up perfect conditions, and relatively easy to convince yourself that your route/aspect choice is safe under moderate or considerable hazard. And you commonly get away with it, leading to positive reinforcement of perhaps? bad decision making. A perfect storm.

Amen.

My experience is that the avalanche reports aren't all that accurate. I've been surprised several times when I shouldn't have been, if you had believed the report. Therein lies the problem. The data you're trying to use to come up with your risk calculation isn't at all precise, but you're treating it like a point value. I'm not talking about either extreme of the scale, which is often pretty accurate, but the middle ground where several avalanche professionals die each year. It's not a simple math equation you can stake your life on.

Thanks @W, powerful.

I probably should start backing up my raps. Thanks for the reminder. Loose rock has claimed two solid partners and almost got me this past year. At least a rap back-up could help me on the way down. And, I should add that I read ANAM and try and be safe about timing/routes/strategy/etc., but I've seen enough crazy stuff over the years (and had a number of close calls) that I have no illusions that I'm making alpine climbing really that safe.

But are any of you going to stop alpine climbing because of some back of the envelope calculation? I won't at least. The estimates of risk for any outing/route on any given day are wild SWAGs, at best, and quite unconvincing for me to give up something that has provided so much color to my life. Too many variables, too little data. For sure I've dialed back the "risk" or whatever over the years, but I think I'm mostly just deluding myself. Watching my old relatives linger and die over the years convinces me that no end is great, so I may as well enjoy it. My family wouldn't be that surprised, including my kids. I've had enough partners die and been involved in mountain rescue long enough that death isn't an uncommon topic in our house. I think the bigger issue is whether or not you believe this life is all there is. The spiritual dimension is much more compelling than statistics, at least to me. When it is your time, it is your time. Death is coming for us all.

Alex's was good, but predictable. I found this one on Dean a bit more complicated, as it sounds like he was: http://time.com/3891093/dean-potter-cedar-wright-climbing/

A good perspective @dberdinka, thanks. But I didn't get the sense the Marc cared terribly what anyone thought of his achievements? He seemed genuinely stoked on the adventure and wild positions he realized his abilities and approach could take him. Isn't it central to your premise that the praise pushed him farther than he would've pushed himself otherwise? Maybe I'm just a wimp, but even in my younger days fear was a powerful motivator that blocked all else out. Unless it was actually fun/reasonable for them (even if only in their minds), I can't see Marc or Alex or any of these guys pushing the boundaries as hard as they do. But maybe I'm just naive.

Just don't be sad or surprised. Bob would hate that.

And this is why we love you @glassgowkiss. Even if we sometimes talk past each other.

Wow. My palms were sweating reading it. Family, exposure, nightfall, gear anchors, no light. Yowza. Glad it all worked!

BOOM! @jon AND @olyclimber BRING BACK THE GOLD! Long live the mighty Cascade Climbers!

I think this is where the the argument never ends. Most people have their mind games that they play to convince themselves that they understand the risks of their particular activity and are making sound decisions. The rest look on and say that you're a crazed adrenaline junkie/addict. No matter the activity, if it is more risky than driving to work and sitting at a desk, many are going to judge, based on their own experience and biases. But at least this debate beats actual work!

I only climb 5.11 R in my head space too.

I'm curious, do you consider wind an "objective hazard" in your paragliding @glassgowkiss? I understand you have sideboards as to when you'll take off, but it seems like it isn't totally within your control either.