el jefe

this crazy, irrational fear of via ferratas sprouting up everywhere seems to be raindawg's peculiar form of seasonal affective disorder. every fall when the rains arrive, he posts this same picture on cc.com and starts the whole apocalyptic message thing. really, old man, try going on a climbing trip sometime. get outside and see what is really going on. reality isn't nearly as scary as you think it is. you spend too much time cooped up with your fears. open the curtains and let in a little full spectrum light. there are a lot of cool things going on in climbing right now and you are missing all of it hiding in your dark closet.

the position of clean climbing is a stupid one. passive and active protection are products of an industrial society and as such don't fit the hippy-dippy definition of natural any more than bolts do. maybe it would if c4s were made from hemp, but they aren't. in all likelihood the environmental impact of all routes being bolted and permanently equipped with quickdraws would result in a much smaller carbon footprint overall for the sport than everyone owning a double set of cams and stoppers. if such were the case, then climbers would only need shoes, harness, rope and belay device to go climbing and the energy and raw materials used to manufacture all those widgets and gadgets could be saved for some other use or simply not used at all!

sounds like kimmo is applying for the position as raindawg's lieutenant that was left vacant when pope retired from cc.com...

i'm not interested in what you call a "discussion", raindawg, because it won't be a discussion in terms of a give-and-take of ideas but rather an opportunity for you to rant and for me to listen to you rant, and i certainly have better things to do. enjoy wandering around in the fog.

dude, of course he's wrong. most of what joseph posts here is "trash".

JosephH: blahblahblahblahsportclimbingruinedeverythingblahblahblahblah me: sounds like it must be raining

raindawg posting his usual drivel re: "clean" climbing and joseph his imaginary statistics -- a clear sign that the rainy season has arrived in the northwest.

the troglodytes have spoken. them no like quickdraws. got it. i'm with RuMR on this one: zzzz...

impressive. those two climb at a completely different level.

What you say is 'sorta' true..... but not really. Just the presence of bolts on a route immediately lowers both the commitment and the quality of a 'scary' route. Say for instance if you get scared you can just bitch out and clip/grab/stand on a bolt. When you start into a runout and there is truly no gear for the next 40ft and you also can't downclimb the moves it is 'full commitment' and 'engagement' with the rock. This is really what we are looking for when doing 'scary' routes. Generally I don't want to be scared, I am looking for that full commitment an engagement with the rock, and to climb calmly and cooly through difficult and committing runouts is one of the most amazing sensations imaginable in rock climbing.... maybe only to be topped by 'clucking' if you "bitch out and clip/grab/stand on a bolt", then that's on you, marc. if you were serious about wanting a "scary lead" then you won't, as you put it, "bitch out". if you do "bitch out", then i guess you weren't really after a "scary lead" after all. bottom line is if you want a scary lead then skip some clips or tie the rope around your neck instead of tying it to your harness. lots of opportunity out there to be scared if that's what you want. no need to go around making rules for everyone else to follow.

no one requires you to clip the bolts on a sport climb or to use a rope, for that matter. if you want a "scary lead" all you have to do is skip some clips or leave the rope at home.

one of the best routes at the upper wall. the second and fourth pitches are the money.

Looooooooozer! a posting from pope himself! is the sleeping curmudgeon awake again?

what does "natural protection" mean, anyway? do cams and stoppers grow on trees somewhere? my vote: who gives a fuck.

don't worry, dave, i'm sure this group won't have any trouble finding something to argue about.

i only use a helmet if i'm climbing ice.

bravo, farrgo! well said.

try viagra.

more like bedwetter on tax day.

buy the guidebook "central washington bouldering". it has info on gold bar and leavenworth and has really accurate, precise info on how to find scads of good boulder problems.

shit, there goes the neighborhood...

the peripatetic dr layton.

so what's your point?

SOMEWUNZ WENT GREEN !!!!MOAR GREEN JOBZ! They should be supportive in a George Soros kind of way? Big money every which direction. Anyway, you can relax, there's a lot less whining since the Kochs got their tax rates down. "Soros is a publicity hound who is transparent about where he shovels his money. And like many liberals — selflessly or foolishly, depending on your point of view — he supports causes that are unrelated to his business interests and that, if anything, raise his taxes" -- this from Frank Rich's article in last sunday's NY Times. the krotch bros., on the other hand, spend money bankrolling the dimwit teabaggers precisely because it benefits their business interests. that's a pretty big difference, bill.

nice work!