tvashtarkatena

It's not about us, friend. There's no pleasure to be had from another's loss.

That thing looks like it's made of poo.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers..."

Live to see 2013.

SHarta Ballard.

I'm busy trying to convince this spoon why it should be a spork, but I'll get back to you.

A lot more.

I smell better and get laid more than you do.

I will remain awesome.

Santorum LOL

"polypro" LOL

Agreed. It was a tragedy all around. All the jeering to shoot the guy like an animal was sickening, but Alex's compassionate response quickly turned that tide.

Saweeeeet.

Sorry, tvash - you're missing the point and absolutely wrong about this - there is NO variation provision for use of motorized vehiclesin the Wilderness, period!! It's the Wilderness!! I'm all for restoring the lookout.... with pack animals and hand-tools. That's how they do it in the 1.5-million acre Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex in Montana, and the FS managed to restore the historic ranger cabin at Green Fork with only pack animals and hand tools. The helicopter is total bullshit. Once, a plane performed a forced landing in the "Bob" at an abandoned airstrip, and the Forest Service required the plane be dismantled and removed by horseback. The cost of two horses they shot is still less than one or two helicopter flights, so the bottom line is the Forest Service broke (not bent) the rules to provide convenience. Lookout Yes Helicopter and Power tools NO!! Finally, (tvash) don't characterize "Montanans" as leading this - it's only a "Montana-based" national organization. I don't identify with the Unibomber or the Freeman or the white supremacists in the Flathead, yet they're "Montanans". As Leonard Washington said, "better check your tone." (Dave Chappelle during the "Trading Spouses" sketch) Next time you need a rescue from a wilderness area have fun on that pack mule ride. The Gubmint uses motorized vehicles in wilderness areas for rescue, maintenance of historic structures, and other purposes as it sees fit. It uses a great deal of discretion in this. Let's be real: it's not much of a problem. You might give the fly boys at Widbey a call if you're terribly worried about overflights of wilderness areas. I'm sure they'll comply immediately, once they're aware of your concern. The structure was painstakingly repaired/rebuilt by hand just after 2000 but was severely damaged by natural forces shortly thereafter. The FS wisely decided to airlift the structure out and rebuild it offsite to save it (and all the work that had gone into it), primarily because it was about ready to slide down the mountain, an event which would have created a really attractive debris field for all you NO MOTORS! folks to enjoy for generations to come. Thankfully, cooler, less ideologically rigid heads prevailed, heads that considered the WHOLE problem and available solutions, the structure was saved, and a mess was avoided. Finally, it's well known that all Montanans fuck sheep. Duh.

Sweet black and whites, you artist you.

I didn't realize 4x4 ing was really big before 1964 when the Wilderness Act was passed. Hint: It wasn't. In addition, fishermen, and to a lesser extend hunters, constitute the largest habitat preservation advocacy group in the country, not hikers and climbers. I'd say Idahoans probably deserve more credit for their Wilderness Areas than is being given.

I read that as 'bear pig'. What's up wit the big long furry tail on that thing?

Ivan and I are gonna totally aid that shit and fuck it all up. We'll leave ya a pack of smokes at the bottom in a baggy, next to the pile of dropped gear.

Just move to Seattle and be done with it, already. After your cat's been raped a few times by homeless psychopaths and you've replaced your third passenger side window, you won't know the difference. You can always spend long weekends in Eugene to recapture the smells and sounds of Missoula.

In violation of the Wilderness Act's allowance for scientific research, Wilderness Watch is also fighting the installation of remote, unmanned weather stations in Alaska. Yeah...great organization to give money to. Really relevant. Fortunately, they don't write the laws, although it would appear that they think they can re-write them.

Relevant Excerpt from the Wilderness Act of 1964: "to promote, perpetuate, and preserve the wilderness character of the lands, protect watersheds and wildlife habitat, preserve scenic and historic resources, and promote scientific research, primitive recreation, solitude, physical and mental challenge and inspiration for the benefit of all the American people to a greater extent than is possible in the absence of wilderness designation.” From the USFS website re: Green Mountain Lookout: "In this spirit of preserving historic structures, since 1984 the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest has engaged in cooperative efforts to maintain its wilderness lookouts: Winchester Mountain, Park Butte, Three Fingers, Miners Ridge, Evergreen Mountain, Granite Mountain and Green Mountain. While each lookout has required considerable work to repair windows, roofs and foundations, the Green Mountain Lookout was in the most dire condition. The Forest Service began to rehabilitate the lookout in 1998 to rehabilitate the lookout. The project received wide public support, Washington State historic preservation concurrence, and grant funding. Work began in 1999. The first repair effort in 2000 failed due to inadequate design for snow loading. At risk of losing the structure, the lookout had to be disassembled and removed from the mountaintop. Each piece was numbered and then removed by helicopter for repairs in Darrington, Wash., so the pieces could be returned and re-assembled to re-create the previous lookout atop Green Mountain. In 2003 and 2006, major winter storms washed out roads and creek crossings, making access to the trailhead a 12-mile hiking venture on undriveable roads. Access finally improved enough that the lookout foundation could be repaired in 2009. The lookout pieces were then flown back by helicopter and re-assembled on the mountaintop. Today, some interior finishing work and other details remain to complete the lookout rehabilitation." The characterization of by Wilderness Watch of this being a 'secret project' is as complete a fabrication as it's assertion that this will become a staffed 'visitor center' (anyone who's familiar with the location of our lookouts will have a quiet chuckle over this). In short, Wilderness Watch has engaged in an out of state campaign involving lying and misreading of statute to tear town a historic structure, built in 1933, that is, in fact, still used by volunteers to spot fires (again, in direct contradiction of WW's assertions to the opposite), and about which its members know little to nothing about. Principled advocacy organizations do not engage in this sort of out and out fabrication. If you've given money to Wilderness Watch in the past, you might look for another organization that will be a better steward of both the truth and your hard earned money.

The ACLU sued the NSA over its wireless watertapping a while ago - it was thrown out due to lack of 'standing' (the defendents couldn't prove they'd been wiretapped because the program's is secret). Now we're back in business. We'll see. Going up against 'national security' is often a tough fight.

You'll probably continue in that failure, j-b Yup, Bill, the ole "National Security - nothing to see here' defense. National Security and the Rule of Law need not be at odds, but they certainly are in the good old USA. It's become a handy excuse for 'I'll do whatever I want'.

WW's attorney is Pete Frost out of...Eugene, OR! (of course). Feel free to contact him: http://www.westernlaw.org/contact-us

Here's the Wilderness Watch take on the situ, from their website. They are fighting a number of fire lookout maintenance projects: they are clearly against all structures in Wilderness Areas, regardless of their history. Apparently, they're working from their own definition of the Wilderness Act, not the actual law and its large body of precedence. "Building New History in Wilderness (Washington): UPDATED 11/10 [Posted 7/10] Wilderness Watch recently alerted its members to the U.S. Forest Service’s (FS) newly constructed Green Mountain “Lookout” in the Glacier Peak Wilderness in Washington’s North Cascades (and also mentioned a number of other outlaw projects we’re dealing with). It was built with freight helicopters and power tools along with a healthy dose of arrogance. It’s actually not intended to serve as a lookout: the last time a person manned a lookout in the area was the early 1970s. No, this was built to be a visitor center of sorts, complete with its resident ranger leading nature hikes, (???) and directly contrary to the legal mandate that there be no structures or installations in Wilderness. The agency would have gotten away with this egregious breach of wilderness ethics and law had not a Wilderness Watch member and former wilderness ranger discovered the project on his own. You see, FS officials plotted it in private, avoiding public process or participation, thinking they might sneak their unlawful activities under the radar. (Actually, local volunteers conceived of, obtained a grant for, and executed the project PMG) What is it about the law’s mandate that there be “no structure or installation” built in Wilderness that the Forest Service doesn’t understand? • Click here to read the rest on our blog [uPDATE, 11/10]: Wilderness Watch has filed a Complaint in federal district court in Washington State. In our complaint we asked the court to rule this structure illegal and order the Forest Service to remove it. We'll keep you posted. WW is represented by Pete Frost of Western Environmental Law Center. Back to top