tvashtarkatena

Wasn't responding to u, Nastia. Just trying to kick some persistently sticky dogshit offa my shoe.

Nope. Context blind dumbshits on parade. Jim's a disappointment. KKK's a given.

I do like little boys. Shitty divorce or no, anyone who thinks child abuse, sexual or otherwise, is funny should probably get some much needed help, however. It's not. Being a dumbass drunk is no excuse, either.

"They want gays to marry now." "Haven't they suffered enough?"

"But is the the RIGHT TIME for gay marriage, what, with Washington's deficit and all?" That's the Grand Ole Party talkin. Kevbone's party. If that isn't two ringing endorsements...

Making a state friendly to pot smoking gays is good for the economy - and therefore good for all of us.

Or this Bubbles?...

This Bubbles?...

So much for the border fence idea...

Love some of what's happening in WA state.

If that's just your first year here I'd say you've pretty much got the hang of it.

Might i recommend girth hitching the rope around the OP's testicles to reduce the frequency of leader falls in the first place.

"I'm a Mormon"

Dawg blew his initially valid point with his typical bluster, as uzhe. Hence, he got the treated like the buffoon he is. Whining's easy. Doing something substantive about it is quite another matter.

I think both the NHPA and WA work OK. Compare us to other countries and we've got some pretty good Wildernesses here. Contradictory laws are the norm and just part of a functioning democracy. I'd like to see organizations like Wilderness Watch pick some of its battles more carefully, with some sensitivity towards local custom and sentiment and more relevance. They also need to upgrade their ethics. They lie too much. Perhaps they've got more donations than they know what to do with. That could be fixed. Beats shooting each other to decide these things, or not bothering to have any preservation at all.

All policy wonkishness and wanking aside, I've never met anyone who has visited one of our Lookouts in 30 years of trapsing about the Cascades and not loved them. I'm sure there probably are some, but they are few and far between. As for what Montanans and Oregonians think of our Lookouts from afar...who gives a rip? That, in my view, is where the real justice lies.

It's also interesting to note that the Wildnerness Act is not the only statute out there. The National Historic Preservation Act requires restoration and renovation of historic structures. These are sometimes in conflict. The Green Mountain Lookout Case will probably fall on whether or not the choppering constituted 'rebuilding' (not required by NHPA, or 'renovation and stabilization' (required and allowed by the Wild. Act). Since the Lookout was rebuild by hand (allowed), and renovated and stabilized by chopper (allowed), I'm guessing the ruling will be in favor of keeping it...but ya never know how it will be decided until its decided. Complicated world out there....

As always: Less swagger, more facts.

I could come up with more, but it's pretty clear that renovating (not rebuilding from scratch, however) the Green Mountain Lookout using choppers is allowed, given a large body of precedent. Devil's in the details.

Sorry, man. Your oversimplified misunderstanding of the Wilderness Act and its application is apparent in Wilderness Watch Versus Mainella, one of many lawsuits that confirms the allowed use of motorized vehicles for official use in Wilderness Areas under the Wilderness Act (in this case, ground vehicles): Full text of decision here: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1296539.html Excerpt: "16 U.S.C. § 1133©.  Thus, aside from exceptions not relevant here,4 the statute permits the use of motor vehicles and transport only “as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this chapter.”  Id." At issue in this case: The ruling confirmed the gubmint's right to use vehicles as necessary for maintenance, but not to transport tourists.

And, while mechanical/motorized recreation is not allowed in Wilderness Areas, other uses of mechanical equipment: mining (when grandfathered in), weather stations and other scientific equipment, etc., clearly are. Reading the actual legislation and its applications before commenting is great advice. One should heed it before issuing it, however.

Anyway, back on topic. As a radio controlled chopper pilot (good thing you can pick those things up for 19.95 now) and paraglider pilot with 10 minutes of flight time under my belt, I can say with some authority that helicopters don't typically land when picking up loads off of mountain tops. Such cargo flights do not, therefore, violate the Wilderness Act. Off topic again...RE: Self Rescue Machismo: most experienced climbers are well versed in both the philosophy and techniques of self-rescue...but few wave off a hovering rescue chopper when lying on a ledge with a broken femur.

Yet another out of stater pontificating about a place they know nothing about. We don't fuck goats here. We just give them golden showers.

Just a guess, but I think the concern might be hitting an eagle and nearly the speed of sound and destroying the blade and possibly the entire wind turbine. Expensive.

Too many dicks on the dance floor....