JosephH

http://www.horyinfo.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2011020021&nazevclanku=zorka-prachtelova

Don't care much for grigris, but absolutely love that Maxim Glider 9.9s...

Nice, I suspect freeing Asgard would require logging some serious airtime and given their blog says they redpointed / headpointed some of the pitches after the initial ascent I would say they did. Hard to cover that much hard ground carrying and trying to plug a bunch of pro - when you have an ocean of clean air like that you might as well take advantage of it. As an aside, a couple of the later falls in the vid look like they had some weird rigging going on, but it's hard to tell with the shots being so short.

That's a solid fall, and entirely clean, and at that level not that big a deal. If you aren't prepared to take repeated falls like that you shouldn't be on it. Like Potter, also on TS: [video:youtube] Yeah, long fall, but totally clean. He's not putting in much pro for exactly that reason, not worth the effort when the fall is that clean. Again, there is no shortage of routes that if you aren't prepared to fly on them you shouldn't be on them. I do, and I meant Lake District when I said it. You know the place with gems like this:

20 foot falls are big whippers for 99% of climbers. And you'd be wrong. You'd be amazed at the level of dirt dodging that goes on there. And yep, I could even point you to a couple of TRs I'd love to see you tie into. But you've got me - I have to admit, I'm always shaken to the core by the boldness of 99% of the climbers I meet these days. P.S. Oh, and funny how most all of what's climbed in the Lake District is shorter than the rock in SoIll.

Thanks Tyler, obviously have my Kates confused... That's a big aid fall. Beacon got mentioned because I don't really get out to anywhere else much and all my recent falls were out there, the one off Menopause being the most notable. In the end I much prefer to log my own flight than watch videos of it, never was into climbing as a spectator sport.

They're like .001 percent of ascents? My point was once Habeler and Messner showed what could be done alpine without Oxygen, all the expeditions since have been tourism.

Courd, you can't cover the yards on big stone in a timely manner carrying and plugging a ton of gear on long free routes. On any aid routes considered remotely challenging you're going to be starring at 50 footers on a fairly regular basis. I believe Kate took a 120-130 footer while soloing PO or South Seas back in 2005 or so. Given relatively clean air space I really don't care how long a fall I take is as it isn't going to be a problem, you can dive all day so why worry about. On Menopause out at the lip of the third roof you're 280' of pretty clean air to the deck, you can certainly take 40 footers on it all day, if you can get up to it.

Of the week? Hell, most mountaineering done since is simply tourism. More like badass of the decade and every decade since.

The aid fall looks like it may have been a 30-something or barely 40 foot clean fall - the normal cost of doing business by Valley standards free or aid. Ammon taking 60+ footers on a regular basis or folks like Kate Rutheford taking a 100+ fall are considered long falls in the aid world. By and large big clean falls are just not that big a deal once you get your head wrapped around it and used to them, just part of learning to move fast over stone that either allows or demands it.

The aid fall wasn't a long fall by aid standards; MacLeod's taking longish clean falls; and the last one in the vid isn't a whipper, it was either a bad placement or a mistake in judgment. I took a 40-50' fall out at Beacon not that long ago that was pretty much exactly like MacLeod's and I'd say it was just approaching longish compared to falls my old partner and I took bitd. Plus, I really prefer clean falls with more rope out and stretch than short, hard ones. But I do agree with the idea if you're not falling your not really pushing it.

Look, we moved the London Bridge to AZ, surely we could move the Western Wall to St. George, I mean New Jerusalem. Given we support Israel to the tune of a it being a 51st state I would think all republicans would support this suggestion as a sensible cost saver.

John, you also have to take into account the fact that life transitions can really affect a man's perspective. Events like becoming a parent, reaching 'a certain age', and seeing your name in print can all cause the development of a sudden onset penchant for bolts.

Southern Utah is available.

I have two of them and they're the standard sling I use when not roped-soloing. You can get a 1-liter hydration bladder for them and still have room for a protein bar, keys, and gear for safety checks.

If you met McGown I seriously doubt you'd 'mythologizing' him, I wouldn't, and I doubt he'd care much for it. He was just a guy who like getting out there and putting up stuff and did a lot of drilling and pounding up in the process; hell, he even pounded stoppers in. My point was that those guys undoubtably looked at that face just like you and I did, and McGown felt no compunction at all about drilling his way up stuff and even he left it be, as did all the others of the old guard. But at least someone is acknowledging this was just about fun and something to do in the winter. Again, my concern is strictly the precedents it sets both for more of this sort of thing and for the fixed pro count. That many points of non-clean aid is simply asking Beacon to pay a lot of freight for your guys' fun and your collective proclivity towards aid climbing over free. Wow, talk about "evasively sidestepping the issues and throwing up a smokescreen of bullshit." Hey, even without the entirely suck precedent there is nowhere on Beacon that deserves to be drilled and pounded up like this. Except that's the complete opposite of what he did - he went with the maximum amount of unclean pro to force a line where there wasn't one. Man, that's like early onset Alzheimers to even try to flip reality upside down like that. No, it's definitely apple-to-apple. No one considers the left half of Sentinel to be any lesser than the Nose and it wouldn't fly on it either. Oh, then I'll be expecting that under 'Studly' then, cool. Maybe you can get it up while Chris' 'First Hammerless Ascent of North America Wall' thread is still on the front page and before someone bumps Leo Houlding's Welcome 'The Prophet' - El Cap's Newest Free Route piece back up.

No evasiveness whatsoever - those last two posts are simple and absolute statements of fact. Hey, tell you what, you take the topo from the first page of this thread and post it up on ST and say you're interested in putting up a line like this somewhere on the right side of the East Face of the Captain or on Sentinel, say between SS and CH and see how you make out with that proposition. Please, though you may want to invent a new logon to post it under as 'Studly' won't be worth much over there if you post it under it.

you keep hyperbolizing the # - there are 26 lead bolts over 7 pitches - every pin could be pulled, and thus not be considered a fixed placement, but you don't want that, and in fact no dout would bitch about it if i did! bet you keep saying 50 though... The point isn't pins or bolts - it's that it took 50 non-clean points of aid to get up the thing because there wasn't a line there that could be realized any other way - that's why no one had done it before you, not that they didn't see it, check it out, or seriously consider it, but because no one would resort to that and also that most of us were looking for as free as possible a line.

You're delusional. Put this up on the Captain tomorrow and you'd be run out of the Valley and roundly pilloried from every quarter on ST. It wasn't C2 climbing, it's was A2 and only C2 now that the pins left in which they should be now that it's a done deal. And let's not make this out to be the Shield or something, Beacon is only so tall and you're talking six pitches of any real climbing and no matter how you stack it your talking about four 60s of climbing if that. Four 60s of C2 aid ought to be manageable in a day. Hey, I don't need to hike the stairs in the Empire State building to know what it's about and I don't need to do this route to know that's it's a completely retro nail and drill up job. It doesn't represent any kind of advance in climbing at Beacon and isn't anything that McGown wasn't doing in '75. It was done for sheer entertainment purposes and it's pretty damn sad miker is the only one here capable of talking honestly about it. You guys can grab each others' asses and drown the thing in lipstick all you for all I care, but it isn't going to change what it is.

When fifty fixed pro placements are required for your adventure - no, that's not what it's about. When it is a 7 pitch route that requires bolt anchors for belays and hauling???, and Ivan made the call to leave pins and peckerheads insitu instead of beating out the rock, it is what its all about. No, it's not - not at Beacon or anywhere else these days. In 1975, sure, but not today.

When fifty fixed pro placements are required for your adventure - no, that's not what it's about.

No I won't be because, other than getting you to finally make a point after endless mewling, you made it clear in the response that you're a dick. What would be the point?

Nah, what's done is done is done and if it were up to me most of them would get chopped, but it's not so I use them sometimes.

Good question. Shane went through the fixed pro application process with the BRSP for all of those routes, the first two I and a couple of other folks got to [informally] comment on (Head Case & Siege Tactics) but the next four we weren't notified for commenting and Erik/Lisa let them go by without external comment, I'm guessing thinking we would be alright with these additional lines as well. I wouldn't have been, but that's the sort of problem that will exist until there is a formal public comment arrangement setup as part of a revised CMP.

Yeah, I climb it on gear without clipping any of the P1-p2 bolts quite often. I rope-solo it so often for the same reason as FFA up to the tree - yardage to get or stay in shape. I can whip out there and jam up them, run down the trail (in the case of YW), and be back to work or home relatively quickly and still get a decent overall aerobic workout.