JosephH

Oh, I've known and talked at length with no small number of libertarians of all stripes from mormons, Skousenians, survivalists to disaffected republicans and a veritable rainbow of tea colors in between. It's definitely a me-myself-and-mine culture marked with a decidedly superior pseudo-randian attitude, an all-too-convenient survival-of-the-fittest philosophy, and a remarkably narrow definition of 'our own'. The libertarian platform is even more unrealistic, extreme, and delusional than the republican 2012 platform with regard to any and all aspects of what it takes to run a country. It's just another form of radical fundamentalism and kneejerk symptom of a basic failure to cope with the inherent complexity of reality. The ideal world where the libertarian platform could successfully manage a government of any size only exists in libertarian fantasies. If they could build walls around our ghettos and pull the plug on them they'd be the first in line to do the deed because that in effect is precisely what their policies and platform would do. Their's is a Utopian vision which skirts just this side of a nightmarish Mad Max world for anyone less fortunate then themselves (and usually less white). And I'm the bigot? Libertarians and the tea partiers live in insular and self-reinforcing bubbles similar to the one the neocons operated within or the one the 'we're-not-W-neocons' republican party just had dissolve on-screen before their disbelieving eyes. Throw in the conspiracy element most libertarians harbor to one degree or another and it's pretty hard to establish a productive, reality-based conversation with any but a very, very small number of them. And try to "find common ground" or establish a political compromise with them writ large as party? Yeah, that would be great if yesterday they hadn't started running further, faster, and "purer" in exactly the opposite direction. About the only good thing I can say about libertarians is they will continue playing a not insignificant role in keeping the Whitehouse in democratic hands for a generation to come at this rate.

That might be the case, but I'm sure not interested in testing the current performance of their claims department.

Libertarians are basically a crew of people who dream they, as first class passengers, have manned the the only available lifeboats on a sinking ship through great foresight, skill, and manly self-reliance. Only later it comes to light they actually manned those lifeboats with all the provisions after scuttling the ship thirty minutes prior while all the other passengers were sleeping. In the investigation that followed the libertarians claimed the steerage passengers were sinking the boat by their sheer numbers and they only did what was necessary for the strong to survive. Empathy is definitely NOT part of the party platform.

I don't know, don't most smaller communities rely more heavily on state and federal funds than larger ones. Personally I'm slowly coming to a conclusion quite the opposite of libertarian themes - that we should instead abolish the states as an unnecessary anachronism from our past which now serves more as a clear and abiding hindrance to infrastructure improvements, suck at education, impede addressing national priorities and goals, drag on our comparative advantage, and simply foster paralysis and division.

Not by his own county of residence, they voted to throw him out.

His own county voted democratic.

Exactly - Reagan math, you just can't kill it, though Romney did a stellar job proving you can't sell the idea that 4 - 2 = 6 no matter how many times you repeat it. Maybe we're finally past all the 'trickle down' crap now once and for all.

My gear got heisted out from under the floor boards of my car out in front of my now wife's house. I had USAA auto and renters and they just asked me for a replacement cost and mailed a check under the rental policy with no documentation of any kind or questions asked. Must be some difference between the renters and HO policies from the sound of it or times have just changed.

Bolts were already failing in droves when I was in Krabi in '93 - it's got to be a total crapshoot now if they haven't been doing titanium replacements for the past decade at the very least.

As I understand the history the tunnels were cut, the slopes were clearcut up to the rock from the tracks (seen in photos), and the fourth tunnel blown all with an eye for riprap for work downriver along the Columbia and in Portland. Back then Portland flooded with some regularity and the rock was to be used somehow in relationship with those flooding events and roadwork.

That was W and Cheney. Obama is the guy who's been climbing back out of the ditch those clowns drove us into. Reagan could have been president for the past four years and guess what would have been different with the economy? Nada, nothing, zip and that's because it's going to take a decade to dig out from under two unnecessary preemptive wars that were put on the national credit card.

Any of the above are good though I would tend to shy away from the C3s.

You can count a democratic win in 2016 as well. Women won't be forgetting the republican senators' message to them anytime soon and if the democrats have half a brain immigration reform won't hit congress until 2015 or 2016 when the republicans in the house will shoot it down cementing the latino vote. Add to that rightwing media is already calling for a move even farther to the right and it's already a done deal.

Don't forget to thank Virginia, Iowa, Michigan, Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, and Florida in the morning. Obama dominated the swing states. I'm guessing Ivan is in shock over Virginia going for Obama and Kaine.

Two years ago when Jeff Thomas and I replaced the anchors down 'Lay Lady Lay' / 'Rip City' with an eye towards cleaning the poison oak out of them, what we found wasn't what we expected. We expected one or more very large vines growing up the lines we could just cut, as that's what it looked like from down at the boat launch. What we found was it's really hundreds of individual plants about a every 6-12" rooted way the hell back in the cracks. From my perspective the only real sure way of getting them out of there would be saturating them with crossbow-laden diesel oil for awhile and burning them out (maybe a couple of times when it was misting out). The odds of getting permission to do that are basically nil. To do it mechanically would be a long and tedious multi-day job similar to the four long days it took to thoroughly clean 'Flying Circus' the first time around. If anyone is contemplating such an ordeal you're going to want one or more of these on 24-36" handles (among other shorter sharp implements and shears) and an extra sharpened 18" blade (or a small diamond sharpener to take along) to really even have a remote shot at being successful: also and Anything else is going to be a lot of painfully futile hurling (good luck and godspeed). Also, the west side base is basically an ocean of poison oak, if serious about reclaiming those climbs then cleaning out a decent trail up the mid west side base that was free of oak wouldn't be a bad start if you weren't ready to get uber-gnarly on rappel yet. P.S. The Park has lost Breanne who has worked in the office for years; another victim of the cuts. So now Karl and Viv, who were already overworked in the park with Ben's departure, are now also swamped with additional admin work in the office. Maybe consider volunteering for non-climbing related park projects that could use volunteer help as well.

It would be if climbers did and most decidedly do not. The only places currently protected from climber 'self-management' (bolting) are crags on private lands like the Gunks or those under active collaborative management like Eldo.

Just that folks have started adopting this notion of routes being 'set' outdoors and the attending shift from rock to climber speaks volumes about the generational changes in thinking and perception underway after thirty years of gyms and sport climbing. It again speaks to the change from gyms having been born of a desire to have at least a poor emulation of real climbing indoors to a reversal where now folks basically just want a good emulation of their gym experience outdoors.

How about the last moves on that pitch to the next anchor? But then that's going to be a short conversation.

I believe the cakewalk being referred to is the alternate moves to the left, not the crux. And I wouldn't necessarily disagree much with your characterization of it, but I suspect more folks head left at that point than not and don't do it. I'm guessing that's because, while the bolt is right there, given the amount of rope you have out at that point you're still going to pound-and-bounce hard if you blow standing up on the move.

True enough. Now if every climb had an easy B[ail] option at the crux climbing would be more lovable all the way around. Could we start with a way to skirt the crux on FFS? Talk about a climb in desperate need of some love.

True, if you skirt the p4 crux.

From the mouth of babes...

Bump.

What's wrong with the odd R or X rated climb? Has / will the 'community' banished such 'egofests' all together as unsavory? At what cost? If it's a 'community service', how do you define 'community'? Who determines the lowest common 'community' denominator when bolting as a service? Is the long-term trend towards body-length or sub-body-length bolt spacing as a norm (115 / 22 = 5'2" though aid was the driver here)? Should all climbs be family-friendly and entertaining? Loop to top...

You should add the details if you're going to post that up: p1 - 5.6 / 120' / 2 bolts p2 - 5.4 / 110' / 4 bolts p3 - 5.4 / 100' / 2 bolts p4 - 5.6 / 100' / 9 bolts p5 - 5.5 / 110' / 9 bolts p6 - 5.7 / 160' / 5 bolts p7 - 5.6 / 190' / 7 bolts (walk) p8 - 5.5 / 200' / 3 bolts p9 - 5.9 / 160' / 10 bolts p10 - 5.8 / 100' / 7 bolts p11 - 10b / 90' / 9 bolts (walk) p12 - 5.8 / 110' / 6 bolts p13 - 5.2 / 130' / 1 bolts p14 - 5.7 / 160' / 10 bolts p15 - 5.2 / 160' / 2 bolts p16 - 5.0 / 80' / 0 bolts p17 - 5.0 / 140' / 0 bolts p18 - 5.8 / 110' / 8 bolts p19 - 10c / 130' / 17 bolts p20 - 5.7 / 60' / 2 bolts p21 - 10a / 180' / 15 bolts p22 - 5.8 / 160' / 11 bolts p23 - 5.9 / 90' / 14 bolts