JosephH

Ah, sorry about that, got wobbly for a moment. Glad you're both still somewhere.

Nice...

Tacoma? I thought you were in B.C.?

That'll be a real trick for about 2-300 individual plants rooted two feet back in a narrow crack system and grown into a series of continuous mats, but with the tools and suit I listed earlier on the other thread and three or four days you might pull it off (that estimate being based on the three days it took to really clean out Flying Circus). Better to do it this time of year if a couple of stretches of dry days come along than any other time of year.

Yes, has anyone here taken a lead fall of any significant on one yet?

If you start about 9:30pm in the summer and have it well-wired, then YW gets lit by the full moon up well enough for headlampless ascents, quite stunning.

My thought was backpack sprayers with Crossbow and diesel when it's good and dry. Let it soak for awhile, say a week, and then, just as it starts to rain, hit it again and light it off. Then as you say, move in for the survivors. Anything else is going to be fairly gruesome given how many individual plants are rooted way back in the crack.

Ah ha... See there is common ground! The cleaning WILL happen - that is of least concern. Opening it is what matters. It would be great if you could use your influence with David Anderson to help with this, Joseph. Specifically with regard to opening the SW face, I believe WDFW is willing to entertain this within the context of an established cooperative, non-adversarial, working relationship around all aspects of WDFW's interests at Beacon, but my understanding was/is the issue was actually more one of a BRSP issue than WDFW one and that would be worth checking with Erik, by way of Karl. But trust me, having rapped it recently, opening it is the easy part, cleaning it will require several suicide cleaning missions - better start working on Ivan straight away. As far as my "influence" with WDFW goes, it's entirely limited to what I can factually state, not what my personal opinion is (and they do know what my opinion on the closure is - but it's just that, another opinion).

Everyone's voice should be heard and it just isn't about my personal opinions or those of any other individual or group. That's been the whole point. And as I've been trying to get across since 2005, all discussions of the Peregrine closure, and indeed all aspects of climbing-related management, are (i.e. should be) dealt with publicly, honestly, sincerely, transparently, and professionally (unemotionally) dealing only with substantive technical merits of the associated scientific, legal, and policy issues. Stoke, angst, indignation, and hoorah - however deeply held or experienced - have no place at the table when dealing with these issues. It's not that anyone is insensitive, unempathetic, or even unsympathetic to the climbers' plight - it's just how government and the science work and a matter of 'cooler heads'. Good to see some of that reality finally sinking in some, even if the principal motivation for all this remains as single-minded and emotionally-driven as ever. P.S. As far as common grounds on the SW face go, I obliged Jeff Thomas and we rebolted those anchors so they're ready to go, but unless you can get permission to use Crossbow-laden diesel to soak and burn the hundreds of individual oak plants count me out (see tool list and safety gear in my post describing the scope of the problem in the other thread) - and I've done several of those routes and know how cool they are, particularly LLL, but it's just that ugly of a situation and not one to be underestimated.

Opening the SW face is no problem other than the hellish nightmare of cleaning the lines of oak. But there is no connection between that face and any other relative to the Peregrine closure. If by 'southeast face' you mean the east face then you don't want to go there as it will only open climbing on the entire rock to renewed scrutiny by the tribes. You'd also have to pay for the necessary EIS and review by the WDAHP as otherwise those funds would come out of the BRSP's now non-existent budget and that's not going to go over well. If you mean your proposed 'buffer zone', that will be decided on its technical merit and it's extremely unlikely any amount of public comments will influence that decision.

Kalashnikov no doubt. Glad it wasn't one of those ancient brit .303 jobs.

That also involves a case of a single-purpose technology advance [refrigeration], eliminating a dual-purpose utility [root cellars] with unintended consequences.

Your point is well taken in general, but with regard to this, how often does 'extreme weather' materialize out of the blue? Rarely I think, and it certainly hasn't been the case in most incidents on the mountain we've seen in recent years where the weather windows have been predictable and obvious to anyone bothering to look at detailed weather data. Rather, either the forecast wasn't consulted or, seemingly in a lot of cases, judgment calls have been made again and again to go with short windows.

Bend real estate trends Much depends on the inventory, backlog and ongoing rate of foreclosures and that is typically a very localized neighborhood-by-neighborhood phenom within cities across the country where one small part of town sustains high prices while many others are decimated by foreclosures. The foreclosure rates depend on a couple of factors such as whether the state has judicial foreclosures or not (we don't) and how fast the banks foreclose in any market - too fast or too slow and the banks screw themselves. ForeclosuresRadar I take the following chart to imply that banks are witholding listing their foreclosure inventories in order to raise prices somewhat - or at least their inventories are not falling at near the same rate as their listing of the inventory. If the banks can sustain that prices will be up somewhat but those prices will cycle back down if they can't.

If you want to start somewhere, you might start with the United States' long and painful history of failing to understand the Mideast isn't Latin America; that you can't operate the same as you would in Latin America and expect the same results in the Mideast. Hint #1: there are no Latin suicide bombers (i.e. no Latino male is going to trade pussy in the real world for the promise of 70 or 700 hundred virgin Mary versions of their mother in the afterlife). Then simply wind forward through one clueless misadventure after another in the region over the span of a hundred and fifty years and you arrive at today's ill-considered fiascoes. In the course of doing that it should become obvious 9/11 requires no conspiracy other than a confederacy of evangelical- and corporate-influenced foreign policy dunces.

Wait...

Dude, you and Opdycke need to get together for a long lunch.

We can only surmise what happens to it once Buck and Kimmo start riffing on sasquatch, nessie, and ufo's.

These types of resources are great for the general weather forecast, but only constitute the minimal extreme events that can occur at elevation. It's entirely possible to have a perfectly clear outlook and have a rather severe orthographic driven weather event. This would be very likely on mountains like Shasta or Hood or SW Olympics which don't have much disturbances upstream. I agree that you can have fairly localized weather events on the mountains, but the big risks I've seen over the years have been folks not anticipating the time between significant and obvious storm fronts coming ashore, often with a predictable cadence. The links above are provided in that context, not for "general forecasts", but solely to understand what's stacked out to Japan and when it's likely to come ashore. In the winter these are often quite well-defined systems and events which are obvious on the pacific infrared sat animation loops. If three of them are strung out and coming ashore with the jet stream is on top of us it isn't rocket science what's going to happen as each front moves onshore nor how long it's likely to be between them. So yeah, you have to be prepared to deal with localized conditions on the mountain, but there's no reason to be up there as obvious and significant fronts are coming onshore. Here's an example from today. Three significant and obviously recognizable events - one onshore and moving through, two more stacked over to Japan with a split jet stream recombining to sit over us. Pretty clear what's going to happen and the only question really is how long a window between each of them. Infrared above, jet stream below...

It would seem on Hood that again and again folks fail to give themselves much if any buffer on the weather window and / or are insufficiently informed about what weather is stacked up out across the Pacific waiting to come ashore. Picking a weather window with enough of a buffer to either deal yourself or be rescued is fairly straightforward judgment. Heading up without being sufficiently informed on the weather is just a mistake and by and large an easily preventable one. The weather resources available today are unparalleled and there is no reason to not avail yourself of them prior to climbing. Just the global / pacific animated infrared sat loop alone gives you a decent picture of what fronts, if any, are stacked up all the way over to Asia and the three day jet stream forecast gives you a fair sense of how and where those fronts are going to come ashore. Those two together with an endless array of local / reginal three and seven day forecasts round out a pretty fair idea of what weather windows to expect. Seems crazy folks either don't avail themselves of the info or pick tight windows without enough, or any, backend margin to deal with unseen circumstances.

It's no big secret that a lot of uneducated Americans and even some educated ones can't sort fact from fiction and wouldn't know a 'system' if it bit them on the ass. P.S. Did someone force your to drink aspartame? What percentage of diabetes is self-inflicted? Gettagrip.

80 percent of the CIA's resources are spent on disinformation. The "straw man" is a well known disinformation tactic. Present an obviously false theory then try to tie it to the credible theories to discredit them. One of the real problems with government-related conspiracy theories is an overall lack of understanding of government charters, organization, policies, operations, competence, and effectiveness. That, and a poor understanding of human nature and how government 'plays out' in the real world. Typical conspiracies always a assume that somewhere there exists some government organization or another which operates and executes with an unworldly effectiveness and inviolate secrecy and security. It's a wholly fictional, unrealistic, and naive view of the world, of governments, and of human nature in general. And what's always the first casualty when you step off the precipice of this labyrinth of diminishing reality? Common sense. Why? Because none of these conspiracy theories - and most especially 911 - pass even the vaguest means test against common sense, Occam's razor, and undeniable realities and (gasp!) facts on the ground. All of these conspiracy theories are grounded in manufactured, self-reinforcing shared realities not unlike those of online games. In fact, they share a lot in common with online realities like Second Life. Pretty much predictable when you pile a broad mix of classic far-right and -left fringe paranoia, religion, politics, fiction, the paranormal, pseudo-science, scifi, and schizophrenia into the blender that is the Internet and shake vigorously. I'm also positing more recent waves of it exhibit no small correlation with the past forty years of Dent/Atwater/Reed/Rovian social manipulations and the rise of right-wing media and talk radio. [ P.S. And you clearly don't know squat about intelligence agencies in general and the CIA in particular. ]

Kevbone declares facts are dead or, if not quite dead, can be taken on a self-service basis or sourced from the evidence sculptor of your choice. I'm thinking it's a quantum sort of deal deal where every version of the 'facts' are 'true' all at the same time. Kev, dude... Then again, we have a strong local tradition of creative perceptual realization and you certainly aren't the first PDX climber to just invent convenient realities as they go along.

These days conspiracies are just a way of measuring individual and broad demographic IGI (Internet Gullibility Index).

Dude, deflect all you want, but it's known that cc.com is an NSA honey pot for mind control experimentation and Kimmo is just a conspiracy turing machine passing all troll-tests with flying colors. I myself and a digital avatar created to wreak havoc on all things imaginarily Beaconesque. And, you sire, know very well you're just a small cog in the NWO wheel - and how do you live with yourself? When are you going to admit vaccines are explicitly designed to dilute our male essence, lower our trad difficulty at least two grades, and make our balls shrivel to the size of peppercorns when confronted with the 'TRUTH' of it all which is plain to see if you'd simply open your loins to it. Opdycke abstains from the internet and especially cc.com for a very good reason - purity of essences and a grave concern for the corrosive effect alien conspiracies can have on us all. He knows all the moderators are reptilian interlopers and the siren call of Kevbone's posts. We should likewise all heed his sage lead and abstain from this internet climbing purgatory lest the end be nigh.