JosephH

I hear you, time marches on. Will have find a quieter spot some where I guess.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2259774/Flu-epidemic-worst-decade-Boston-declares-state-emergency-Chicago-hospitals-turn-away-ambulances.html

Looking at Railay now on google earth I see Tonsai beach got developed. When I was there in '93 there was nothing at all over there or the beach on the Ao Nang side of the point so no longtail boats were transecting a line between Railay west and the point that projects out into the bay between Tonsai or a line between the point and Ao Nang. Kind of a bummer now as I thought the daily swim from Railay west out to the point or to Ao Nang and back was the best part of staying there. Now with all the longtail boat traffic in and out of Tonsai and that other beach you'd end up just so much cut up fish bait if your tried that swim today.

I'll say, I was there for six weeks and had a hard time leaving.

Hah. I took a full trad rack and it seem to create quite a stir with the locals one of whom ended up my main partners while I was there. I was there in '93 and the bolts were disintegrating then, hope they've been replacing them fast and furious ever since.

Jeebus, hard to believe it's been twenty years since I was in Railay. Now that the kidder is raised up and flown the coop we'll have to consider getting back there again.

http://gearjunkie.com/jacket-has-hood-with-goggles-built-in

As opposed to the always deadly car belay...

Why you don't want the tribes re-involved (East Face closure related)

Yes, but we were done at that point.

Well, if there were newer heavy Metolious rap hangers, then you went down the LLL and Rip City rap. This is definitely the time of year to do it.

Climbing much down there in the land of plenty, or are you mostly wobbling these days yourself.

Ah, sorry about that, got wobbly for a moment. Glad you're both still somewhere.

Nice...

Tacoma? I thought you were in B.C.?

That'll be a real trick for about 2-300 individual plants rooted two feet back in a narrow crack system and grown into a series of continuous mats, but with the tools and suit I listed earlier on the other thread and three or four days you might pull it off (that estimate being based on the three days it took to really clean out Flying Circus). Better to do it this time of year if a couple of stretches of dry days come along than any other time of year.

Yes, has anyone here taken a lead fall of any significant on one yet?

If you start about 9:30pm in the summer and have it well-wired, then YW gets lit by the full moon up well enough for headlampless ascents, quite stunning.

My thought was backpack sprayers with Crossbow and diesel when it's good and dry. Let it soak for awhile, say a week, and then, just as it starts to rain, hit it again and light it off. Then as you say, move in for the survivors. Anything else is going to be fairly gruesome given how many individual plants are rooted way back in the crack.

Ah ha... See there is common ground! The cleaning WILL happen - that is of least concern. Opening it is what matters. It would be great if you could use your influence with David Anderson to help with this, Joseph. Specifically with regard to opening the SW face, I believe WDFW is willing to entertain this within the context of an established cooperative, non-adversarial, working relationship around all aspects of WDFW's interests at Beacon, but my understanding was/is the issue was actually more one of a BRSP issue than WDFW one and that would be worth checking with Erik, by way of Karl. But trust me, having rapped it recently, opening it is the easy part, cleaning it will require several suicide cleaning missions - better start working on Ivan straight away. As far as my "influence" with WDFW goes, it's entirely limited to what I can factually state, not what my personal opinion is (and they do know what my opinion on the closure is - but it's just that, another opinion).

Everyone's voice should be heard and it just isn't about my personal opinions or those of any other individual or group. That's been the whole point. And as I've been trying to get across since 2005, all discussions of the Peregrine closure, and indeed all aspects of climbing-related management, are (i.e. should be) dealt with publicly, honestly, sincerely, transparently, and professionally (unemotionally) dealing only with substantive technical merits of the associated scientific, legal, and policy issues. Stoke, angst, indignation, and hoorah - however deeply held or experienced - have no place at the table when dealing with these issues. It's not that anyone is insensitive, unempathetic, or even unsympathetic to the climbers' plight - it's just how government and the science work and a matter of 'cooler heads'. Good to see some of that reality finally sinking in some, even if the principal motivation for all this remains as single-minded and emotionally-driven as ever. P.S. As far as common grounds on the SW face go, I obliged Jeff Thomas and we rebolted those anchors so they're ready to go, but unless you can get permission to use Crossbow-laden diesel to soak and burn the hundreds of individual oak plants count me out (see tool list and safety gear in my post describing the scope of the problem in the other thread) - and I've done several of those routes and know how cool they are, particularly LLL, but it's just that ugly of a situation and not one to be underestimated.

Opening the SW face is no problem other than the hellish nightmare of cleaning the lines of oak. But there is no connection between that face and any other relative to the Peregrine closure. If by 'southeast face' you mean the east face then you don't want to go there as it will only open climbing on the entire rock to renewed scrutiny by the tribes. You'd also have to pay for the necessary EIS and review by the WDAHP as otherwise those funds would come out of the BRSP's now non-existent budget and that's not going to go over well. If you mean your proposed 'buffer zone', that will be decided on its technical merit and it's extremely unlikely any amount of public comments will influence that decision.

Kalashnikov no doubt. Glad it wasn't one of those ancient brit .303 jobs.

That also involves a case of a single-purpose technology advance [refrigeration], eliminating a dual-purpose utility [root cellars] with unintended consequences.