Gripped

Isn't it still cutting in front of people, when you drive past them at 70 mph and they're going the posted speed limit? Why is that OK when HOV pilfering is not? And what about passing on the right? Is that OK too? The way I see it, if someone passes me on the right, then I f**ked up, because I should have been in the slower lane to let them get by me... "Go faster, or go over"

Why is it OK to speed, but it's not OK to ride in the HOV illegally? Who determines what is righteous? That question asked, I will also sell Ken down the river... in a heartbeat.

Repeat after me, "correlation does not mean causation."

No, rather - they kill innocents IN SPITE OF THE FACT that they are innocents. And they do so with misgiving. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it's not terrorism. Terrorist = objective hazzard They might blow you up at the mall US. Military = subjective hazzard They might blow you up if you stand next to the Soviet supplied Mig-21

Quite. Adolph Hitler shared the same sentiments in 1936 on. Are you saying that the US is a despotic tyrannical state set on the annhilation of not the non-aryan races? Dooood! You must chill!

I beg to differ. I don't see any point in discussion beyond this disagreement. You say that there is government conspiracy, and I say that I am not a paranoid personality type. Gowens, what do you intend to do about the situation? Continue to rant on cc.com to change the world? Cast your vote against Bush like the rest of us, and then move on with your life.

So, the US troops are terrorists. Doolittle, The US kills innocent people, but it is not done "indiscriminately"

True enough. The point I was trying to make though is that Berlusconi's sphere of power is limited and restrained by entities such as the E.U. The fact they we govern ourselves as a people, rather than being governed by some external entitity is GOOD.

OK, Scottsman. First off, Your little summary about what was really said was totally fabricated on your part... It's possible that you're right. It's also possible you're totally wrong about the meaning of Bush's laugh. It might have been a laugh of embarassment. You're reading your own fears into the sitution. Dude, you must chill. It's not all a government conspiracy. Second, Checks and Balances??? They are there. They're called the Congress and the Supreme court. They're called freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms. If you don't think these are valid checks and balances, then you don't agree with the constitution of this county... so are you advocating a fundemental change in our Constitution? A revolution? What are you saying? Or are you just whining? If you're advocating revolution, then you are a fool. To get him out of office, he should be voted out of office, or if the Congress finds that he has been derelict in his duties, then he can be impeached. Scottsman, you need to relax a little, have a and then vote this guy out of office.

AK, did you mean to say pedantic or pathetic?

Or what about The Little Prince?

You are making a presumption about motivation that may or may not be true, and it makes for a weak argument. The 8000m peaks are not endangered. They aren't going anywhere. This analogy doesn't really work. Nobody BELONGS at 8000m. Everyone up there is taking a risk. Your rhetoric about "the clients are being scammed by the corporation"... "The clients are being led into peril by the corporation" This kind of thinking is just plain aweful. The clients are people. They can make their own decisions. They are resposible for their own actions. To treat them otherwise is foolish. Why interfere in Natural Selection?

If the client is happy with the service they bought, and the guides are happy to provide that service, then it is not a scam, it is an mutually benificial agreement. (yes, even if the guides milk a couple of climbs out of the deal)

Karl Marx and Frederick Engels: Manifesto of the Communist Party 1848

It really depends on the climb and your preference.... A set of stoppers, 2-3 cams, 10-12 runners (some singles, some doubles) is my standard alpine rack. If I know I'm going to do a lot of running belays (lots of class 4 and low/mid 5th) then I might take a larger rack so that I can stretch each run out a little bit further. It saves time switching leads (of course the trade off is having to hoof more gear on the approach) I'd say bring a piece or two more than you think you'll need on each climb until you've done several climbs and have a better feel for it. Running out of pro and trying to set up a belay can really stain the undergarments.

Distel, You weren't TRYING to bag on weak climbers, you WERE bagging on weak climbers. Rock on Distel! Bouldering pics are cool. You have shown that you are not. --------- Distel takes skillz to da hillz part II: Distel: Slappin' the fatty Sloper since 1979.

I use perlon for alpine ice.

Winter Slogs

I would like to invite you all to join my fan club: Journey Fan Club -------------

Dude, would you tone it down? I find your reference to sport climbing offensive.

Thinker, Most people who go climbing have multiple goals. Safety, Fun, Learning, Obtaining the Summit- these are all measures of success. If you failed to summit, then you failed.... UM. yeah, you failed to summit. How are you failing to understand the logic of this? Can you fail to summit and still succeed in your other goals? Certainly. Is safety the most important goal? Well, yes, to any sane person.

Don't worry Minx, there's no limit to the number of parents that can be dysfuctional... there's still hope for you!

Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly. Robert F. Kennedy

CG- You are a good writer. I think that Lummox and Cracked are right: Not summitting is a failure... but did you make the right decision? Yes. If you don't fail sometimes, then you're not living your life right... you're not pushing hard enough. When a climb turns me back, I always come back at it... it stays in my mind, and on my knock-off list. It becomes a grudge match. My most rewarding climbs have always been the ones that turned me back once or twice before I was able to send them. I'm sure you'll be back at those Gib Ledges in the next year or two. Cheers (well, cheers in two years)