olyclimber

Draft didn't stop the Korean war, or the Vietnam war, or the civil war, or ... The draft used to be the status quo and yet we still went to war a lot. Not sure why it would suddenly fix things. well the thing that changed dramatically is the media's involvement and the reporting of what war is actually like. it was never reported on like it was in the Vietnam war, and that is was has been proven to be the turning point. and in fact we are STILL talking about the Vietnam war and the draft for that war...i.e. George Bush and Mitt Romney...how did they get out of the draft for that war? Of course Obama gets a pass because he was probably in some crib in a mosque in Africa.

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well sure that's true. but if you really don't want to deal with an area and you can accept collateral damage, the ordinance they have at their disposal sure make things easier.

a draft is the only way to make the population care about whether we are in a war or not. otherwise it is just the people who can't afford anything else or the people who just want to be soldiers that are fighting...which is not enough of a representation of the populous. I guarantee that joe and jill mainstreet would think about us being in a never ending war differently if their kid was drafted and sent over. if there was a draft this war would have been over a long time ago. otherwise we are just dealing with a for profit war fought by mercenaries and a few gullible patriots. I know a bunch of people that have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan or both...yes they are "patriots" that believe in America and all that stuff...and they are good people...but I'm relatively sure they would not have gone if the pay wasn't so good over there. I'm definitely not saying this is the case for everyone...maybe you're different and the money doesn't matter. But its unlikely. Vietnam will likely be the last war with a draft. Not only had technology advance to where feet on the ground don't matter as much, but the political consequences wouldn't allow it to happen.

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Did you and Rat use an official timer? Did you count the time from when you got out of the car, or did you from when you started hiking from the trailhead? What make/model of timing device did Rat use?

Well the party that posted that are two of the most accomplished athletes that post on this site (Uli I know he absolutely owned runs in the PNW for a long while). I'm not so much sensitive to your post as much as I just think you're being a bit narrowed minded or perhaps dense. To post a TR here there has NEVER been a requirement to actually climb anything. In fact some great TRs have been all about failure to do so. It is more about sharing the conditions of the back country, sharing some positive stoke, and yes occasionally throwing down a challenge or setting a bar. the fact of the matter is that these guys did something that pretty incredible....if you don't believe its true then go try it yourself. Anyway, it is a discussion, but I don't think it much of one. We would MUCH rather have these guys posting their times, sharing their pictures of the backcountry, and challenging us to get out and speed hike/run that country if it is out thing. If it isn't? Well don't read the TR or skip the bolts.

if you can get a tube tape recorder this will provide a warmer sound once you get it to youtube.

Get a tape recorder and then play the CD and record it from your speakers. then use your computer to record the playback of the tape recorder, and then upload this to youtube.

http://radio.myanimalhome.net/

[video:youtube]YCiY1y3uJ3o i only listen to this song, over and over. call me.

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:tup:

that is crazy. are they on a speed aging program? my son has taken all 11 years to get to 11.

Glad you guys were able to get off OK. Hopefully people do the right thing and get you your gear back. If not, living is an even better reward.

Oh it is less than that Alex. Far less.

Mt Stone is one of my favorite summits in the olys. Nice day hike, great views, and a nice scramble to the summit...not to mention the route finding if its your first time up there and you don't know the way. I remember the first time I climbed it we totally screwed the final part of the approach and got the crap scared out of us on some gully, but still managed to get up there and tag the summit. Can't wait to do it again.

great TR. thank you for sharing.

Gotta say Drew is right Muff. Hey, even if you need to lose the gear to gain some space never say never. You can always borrow or buy the new hot prana top and harness. It can always come back to you again, even if its struggling up a 5.7, it can still be fun. I haven't been climbing for a while myself due to pouring my heart and soul (and time) into raising one boy the best I can and helping him do what he wants to do. But I still dream of it all the time and will find a way to get back out there, and when my time is my own again I will. There are still lots of great times ahead of you, don't limit yourself...some of them could be climbing.

what a bunch of dweebs

that is an incredible writeup for sure