Rad

Thx. It could also be a PITA to get the lower draws off the route when cleaning.

Developing a great new line on a continuously overhanging wall. When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

Probably best to put qdraws on anchor and use those for followers and TRing until it's time to get the rope off the route. Then, rapping is better for anchor and usually rope, but on seriously overhanging routes rapping is a PITA and lowering is the often better. Chains/Quicklinks can be replaced/added without damaging the anchor per se. At the x38 crag I'm developing I'm leaving old biners on chains so folks can lower quickly and easily without damaging anything. Got the idea from Nason. BTW, tis the season and I'm glad to take folks out who are interested. pm to connect. Rad

Nice TR and photos. Bummer that the rock quality is not great. Based on your pics, I've now moved that route lower on my list. I'm sure Wayne could climb soaking wet 5.9 in roller skates and oven mitts, so you were in good hands.

Actually, I have the opposite reaction when finding a new crag. In a choice between having ticked off a bunch of routes on my to do list and a legacy of establishing a few really fun, high quality routes I'd be unable to throw all my marbles in one pile or the other. I'm married w/kids and have been putting time into route dvpt for the past few years, at one local crag and occasionally in the mtns. I really enjoy sharing these routes with others. Sometimes new routes and fun outings with friends merge (put it on your list!).

Maybe FAFM (first ascent for me). Regardless, kudos for having a vision, cleaning, and sending. You're just getting flack because of your other obnoxious posts. Don't let the naysayers deter you from future projects. And btw, I get to decide what is RAD and what is not. Period.

Then you should be fine. Bomber small nuts protect the crux on p3 and the fall is clean if you should fall. Go for it! And continue up Lovin Arms. The 10b pitch is a bit insecure and can be damp, as noted above, but the 10c is pretty reasonable and very fun. The final 5.9 pitch is fun and not as runout as some would have you believe.

Godzilla is fun, but the opening moves are pretty unprotectable and a fall from them could be ugly. The 10 bolt approach from the left is better protected but harder. Davis Holland p1 5.9 has a short crux that feels 5.9, but it is often wet so that adds to the spiciness. p2 is about right at 10a, but it can feel harder if you don't trust your feet or jam/lieback efficiently. p3 seems pretty soft for 10c, and it's a one move wonder, but the opening moves of that pitch are really fun.

Here's another reason to drink warm beer: your uncultured partners won't steal it from you! At home, I sometimes get Tim's Jalapeno chips. MMMmmm spicy. My kids will say, "But daddy, you know we don't like spicy so we can't eat them." My answer: "Oh, you're right, I guess I'd better eat them myself!"

Creeks and rivers that drain from snowfields usually rise during the day as snow melts, and drop again at night. Rising waters may wash away your beers, which are pretty close to neutral buoyancy, even without human intervention. I lost beer in the Sierras in this way years ago. If people really stole it that's sad, but just means you need to find a better stashing spot, forego ritual swilling, or be willing to drink warm beer like the hardier brits. "One man gathers what another man spills"

RIP Monty. Thank you for being so generous with your time in helping with the SAR article I've been putting together. I looked forward to sharing it with you, but now I guess I'll have to dedicate it to you instead. Vaya con Dios, Rad

My worst climbing injury was a badly sprained ankle many years ago. I was trying a climb at (or perhaps beyond) my limit and unexpectedly popped off while pulling up rope to clip the second bolt. My belayer yarded in slack so I was still caught, but my foot landed on the edge of a stone. I barely hobbled back to the car but still managed to serve as an usher (on crutches) for my roommate's wedding the next day. Oops! Trad, boulder, sport. I don't think any one is categorically safer than another.

no STATE income tax in WA. Still gotta fund the feds. BTW, you guys need to spend some $ painting reflective paint on your roads in OR. I recently drove I5 from end to end at night and was not impressed. ps. the best rock climbing in OR is in WA, right?

tee hee. makes me glad to live in a state with an abundance of rock climbing and NO INCOME TAX!

Dane, Your heliski comment doesn't reflect what I've seen. Whistler Heliski, at least, monitors weather closely and tells you early am if they'll fly that day or not. If they don't fly on the day of your booking you don't get charged at all. When they do fly, the guides assess potential slopes by a variety of means before clients arrive, so clients typically don't get to choose the slopes/routes. Unlike a climb up Rainier, the heliski folks have a wide range of slopes and aspects to choose from. Bottom line is that they are almost certainly not going to take you to the top of the mountain, call it off at that point, and then fly you back down and charge you for the run. Private charters may be a different story. Regardless, perhaps the main reason to hire a mtn guide is to have someone to help keep you safe. Deciding when/if to attempt the summit is a huge part of that, and if I were the client I wouldn't want to second guess the guide.

June weather is notoriously fickle. Could be sunny and 70s or rainy and 50, and you won't know until just a few days beforehand so come up with a great weather plan (e.g. Forbidden Direct E Ridge) an OK on East side but wet on West side option (e.g. Serpentine on Dragontail) and a wet most everywhere plan (Goat wall in Mazama?). Good luck.

And ample mosquitoes too! The WA pass area is the only place in WA where I've had hoards of buzzing bloodsuckers chase me two pitches up a route.

P, Like you, I was a trad climber for years before coming to sport and then a little bouldering. Bouldering in the gym regularly made a big difference for me. It can expand your repertoire of moves, increase finger and forearm strength, and help you become more dynamic when needed. You'll also get to watch how better climbers float up the moves that stump you and connect with partners stronger than you. You may find that up to 5.8 or 5.9 you are solid and can stop at any point to place gear or snap a pic etc. Trad climbing is often equated with static climbing, but it doesn't have to be that way. As you go from 5.9 into 10s and 11s there will probably be sections of climbs that feel at your limit, where you can't pause without falling. Learn to climb through these to the next stance where you can rest/clip/place gear. Work rests as noted above and gun through the sections that are harder. In a similar vein, sometimes it's more efficient to dyno/deadpoint to a good hold than burn energy on crappy intermediate holds. Also, it helps to try climbs harder than you think you can do, even if it gets ugly, so you get the feeling of harder moves. If shooting for easy 10s make sure to get on some hard 10s. If shooting for mid to hard 10s then try some 11s etc. There are some good training books out there, and some good thoughts in this thread. I used to think that climbing harder is just about pulling harder, and that the mental aspect was a separate dimension. Now I'm learning that strength and training are part of the mental game too. In short, everything is in your head. If you are motivated, persistent and intelligent in your training, and stay healthy you should easily achieve your goals. I set myself some redpoint goals to hit before turning 40. I wasn't sure if I could make them, but I knew that trying would likely bump up my level, and it has, opening a whole new set of possible routes to target. I finally hit my objectives this spring, at 42, and although it was later than intended, it was very satisfying. If you want it bad enough I'm sure you can achieve your goals. Good luck!

Let me know if you figure out the difference between "mostly sunny" and "partly cloudy". Sounds like two ways to look at the same glass of milk.

sickie sickie sickie Update: My intial 500 has been matched by Colt45 (200), Marko (50), summitCJB (50) LAB (50), OrionSonya (300 for initial pledge). So I made my payment. OrionSonya has offered to match 300 in contributions. Fenderfour has offered to match 500 in contributions. Toward that 800 so far we have: MountainMatt (50), NKane (50), Sherri/Crillz?? So there is still another $700 in match money to double your contribution. Anyone? Please note that we are not checking the Index website so the only way matchers will know if you've donated is if you post here or send a pm to one of us. Also, Fenderfour has set a deadline of Monday May 24th for his match. So act now, don't delay! Thanks so much! Now we just need the darn rock to dry... sickie sickie sickie

Rope burns are only going to occur if the rope is sliding through your hands. If your brake hand is on the rope and goes to a lockoff position to catch a fall then the rope shouldn't be sliding. Some people do a 'soft catch' in certain circumstances (steep terrain, bad gear, etc), but this is only advisable for experienced climbers and is inadvisable where a longer fall might mean hitting a slab or anything else. So while Steve's message seems harsh, it may be correct.

Echoing comments above: Many X38 crags suffer from seepage issues, so they will be wet after it rains even if their overhanging nature keeps them dry during the rain.

Work (out) hard. Play (outside) hard. Nice.

Wow Thanks!!! I don't think $50 is modest. Even $10 helps. Thank you all. I'll chip in my max of $500. That brings us to $1150 here so far, including my contribution. FYI, this is on the honor system. Don't post or send your receipt. Hopefully Index will repay you with good karma and sick sends! If anyone else wants to offer another match (smaller or larger or whatever) that would keep the stoke going. Thanks again. Rad